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430- Clubhouse Q&A - Round 3!

Clubhouse Q&A - Round 3!

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Enjoy another round of questions and answers during a recent Marketing Secrets Live episode. Register for the next Marketing Secrets Live episode at

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Best Quote:

You know what's interesting, is that at every level, there's a new challenge. And so it changes. And every time when you're going through it, it seems like the biggest thing in the world. And when you look back, it's like, "Oh, that was actually really simple." But in the heat of the moment, it's hard. For the beginning part, it was just me believing that I was worth it. Right? I was the kid who struggled in school. I was never that smart. The only thing I was ever good at was wrestling. And I'm trying to start a business, and then I had a million doubts of, "I'm not worthy. I don't know how to do this. I'm not smart enough. I don't..." At the time, I didn't like to read! You know? First, it's that mental battle. I think for most entrepreneurs when they start their journey, it's the mental battle of just believing that you're worth it, that you can actually do it.


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Russell Brunson: What's up, everybody? This is Russell Brunson. Welcome back to The Marketing Secrets Show. During this episode, you're going to have a chance to listen to some of the live Q and A.

And this one got really fun. We had some really cool directions and angles that we went on. I think there's something for everybody through this Q and A, so hopefully you enjoy it. On top of that, don't forget: If you want to get your question answered live, make sure you subscribe at

It's Go there. Subscribe to the room. And that way, you'll be notified the next time I decide to go live, and you can jump on and get your questions answered. These questions this week were really fun. A lot of different directions. I think you guys will get a lot of value from it. So that said, we'll cue the theme song. When we get back, we'll jump directly into the questions and answers.

Yhennifer: Awesome. So our first guest here is Tracy. Tracy is guiding you with tax reduction strategies! All right, Tracy. Thank you so much for being here. What question do you have for Russell?

Tracy: Hi, Russell! This is Tracy Lo, and I am so inspired by your stories all the time. I've learned so much from both you from afar, and also Myron. So my question is: How do you keep all your parts moving? Do you have a strategy for keeping your mental state as well as your philanthropy and your business together? What is your strategy?

Russell: Oh, that's a great question! I would say I've been lucky, because when I first started this business, it was me trying to figure things out. And I was more chaotic than I am now. Anyone on my team is laughing, because they know that it's still kind of chaos. I think from the outside, things look organized, and things like that. But it's really surrounding myself with a good team of people.

People who have a similar mission, who are trying to do the same things that we're doing together. It's having a good team of people. And then a lot of it is just figuring out how to build the things into your routines that'll get you the success you're looking for. Right? So for me, I know that for the first... ah, man... seven to eight years of my entrepreneur journey, I wasn't into health. And so I gained a ton of weight. And I had a... You know? I was more lethargic.

I didn't even know I was unhealthy until I decided to start getting in shape and getting back in. And all of a sudden, by getting back in shape, it increased my energy. I felt better. And I was like, "Oh, my gosh! I need to weave this, now, into my routine to make sure I don't lose it again." So it became part of my routine where these things are all tied into it.

Right? And so now it's easy, because it's just part of what I do. Mentally: "Okay. How do I stay sharp?" Well, if I'm going to be successful, I get paid to think for a lot of people. So if I'm going to be successful, my mind has got to be sharp. So I got to go listen to podcasts, and read books. And putting myself in situations where I can keep sharp and keep figuring out, "What's working today? What are the things that are working the best?"

And so I figure out what all those things are, and then I put them into my schedule. I say, "Okay. I need to build this into my routine where I have time to listen to podcasts, or read books, or go to things that are going to help stimulate my mind so I can stay high there." And then charities. Right? When we decided... It's funny, because I get hit. I'm sure all of you guys here, you're hit by a million people wanting to... "I want to start donating money, maybe, to charities!" And for me, it's like, "I don't want to be the person that just gives money and then forgets about it." I want to make sure the things that I'm passionate about, so...

Like Village Impact, we're very passionate about that. So it was like, "Okay. How do we make this part of what we do?" And so it wasn't just like... Give them a check, and then a year later, figure it out. It was like, "Okay. If we're going to do this with them, let's be very strategic about that." So I said, "Okay. Let's..." Todd and I, when we started ClickFunnels, we said, "Okay. Let's set up where every time somebody creates a funnel inside of ClickFunnels and it gets at least 100 visitors..."

So it's a live funnel. "We'll donate a dollar to Village Impact." And so we started that seven years ago. And the first year, I think our check we gave them was... I don't know, $15 grand. And then the next year, it was $30 grand. And then $60 grand. And then $100 grand. So it gets bigger and bigger, but it's now part of the mission. So I don't have to think about it, because it's built into what we're doing. And now every year at Funnel Hacking Live, I'm like, "Stu and Amy, come on stage!"

And we have a big old check. You know? Now, it's six-figure checks. And they get bigger. And it's eventually going to be seven-figure checks. But it's built into what we're doing, and so I don't have to think about it again. You know? O.U.R. is the same thing. We did the big launch where we launched with the documentary, and it did well, but then it wasn't consistent.

So we're building a whole platform now that'll be a consistency thing, where it's now that... This mission is always being worked on, because there's a platform, and there's someone in charge of it. There's a team member who... that becomes their sole focus. And now it's weaved into it. So it's figuring out the things that are important to you that help you achieve the goals you want, and then figuring out... How do you weave those things into your routine, or your business model, or your whatever, so that it just happens and you don't have to think about it?

Because it's too hard. We have so many things we're all doing. If you have to have the mental power to think about it every time, then nothing ever happens. So that's kind of how I do it. And I hope that helps. And it's also surrounding yourself by amazing humans who help fulfill those missions as well.

Tracy: Thanks so much, Russell. This is Tracy Lo, CPA, passing the mic. Thank you.

Russell: Awesome! Thank you, Tracy. Appreciate it.

Yhennifer: All right. Thank you for being here, Tracy. Now we're going to go on to Jermaine. Jermaine is in the real estate industry. Jermaine, what question do you have for Russell?

Jermaine: Hey, Russell! Hey, everyone! I just had a quick question. I was wondering... Well, I got two questions. The first one: I didn't quite catch that book that you recommended?

Russell: Was it Atlas Shrugged?

Jermaine: What was that again?

Russell: Atlas Shrugged.

Jermaine: Yep. That's it.

Russell: It's a really big book, so it takes commitment. It's insanely big. But as an entrepreneur and producer, you will love it. Especially in the real estate market.

Jermaine: Okay. And I also wanted to know... while I have you... I wanted to know: Throughout all your time that you've changed the world and inspired people, what was your biggest business challenge that you had to overcome? And how did you overcome it?

Russell: Oh, that's a great question! You know what's interesting, is that at every level, there's a new challenge. And so it changes. And every time when you're going through it, it seems like the biggest thing in the world. And when you look back, it's like, "Oh, that was actually really simple." But in the heat of the moment, it's hard. For the beginning part, it was just me believing that I was worth it. Right? I was the kid who struggled in school. I was never that smart.

The only thing I was ever good at was wrestling. And I'm trying to start a business, and then I had a million doubts of, "I'm not worthy. I don't know how to do this. I'm not smart enough. I don't..." At the time, I didn't like to read! You know? First, it's that mental battle. I think for most entrepreneurs when they start their journey, it's the mental battle of just believing that you're worth it, that you can actually do it.

And so for me, that one took a while. And then when I finally was like, "Oh, my gosh. I'm not..." I always thought I was a dumb kid growing up, because I struggled in school. So I remember having the realization after I started having success. I was like, "Oh, my gosh. I'm not dumb! I can learn things! If I'm interested in the book, I can actually read it and enjoy it!"

So that was the first big hurdle for me. Right? The next one was... As I got to a point in my business that was like... It was just me, and I was juggling a million things. I was like, "Okay. How do I... I can't keep doing this. I'm going to drown eventually." So I was bringing on employees to the team. And man, I can't tell you how bad I was at that! I hired all my friends. All my friends, I just hired initially, because I was like, "Oh. They're cool. I'll hang out with them!"

So I hired all my friends. It turns out my friends are morons... No, I'm just kidding! Well, kind of. Some of them were... But no, I love them all. But it was like I hired all my friends, and they didn't know what to do. And I didn't know how to teach them. So I was like... Dude, I was working while they were all goofing off in the other room.

And they wanted help, but I couldn't teach them, because I was too busy trying to make money to pay them. And so it took me years to figure out, "How do you get a team and get the right people in place?" And that was the next big challenge. Right? Then it was like, "How do you actually create something that's not just an offer?" Right? That could be a long-standing business. We tried for years to figure that out.

And eventually, ClickFunnels was the business that became more than just an offer for me where it was like, "Oh, my gosh. This is a platform, something that can grow bigger." And then inside of that, there has been so many challenges. How do you scale a company like that? You know? How do you scale the support? How do you go from five employees to 500 employees?

There's just different challenges to every step. And so I think that there's been a lot of them. But the biggest thing I would say is that the key that I find at every tier, the thing... It took me a while to figure this out initially. And now, I've gotten better at realizing, "Oh, the pattern to solve these is always the same." It is... You can call it "funnel hacking," call it, "modeling," whatever it is... is I try to always connect to the people that are a tier above me or two tiers above me. Right?

So right now, we're trying to... I literally am paying somebody who's gone here, done this. And we do a one-hour call every other week with him. He's built multiple companies, software companies, to the billion-dollar mark. And so he's been down the path. And so we get on a call. I'm like, "Okay. Here's where we're stuck. What am I going to do? What would you do?" And I'm asking questions and modeling, like, "Hey. Show me three businesses that have done what you're talking about."

And he'll show me. We'll find it. And we look at it, and we reverse-engineer it. We come back and apply it. And so the key is just really figuring out... It's modeling. It's figuring out who's already done the thing you're doing. Find that person. Pay them money. Get to know them. Join their coaching. But whatever it is, get around the people who have already done the thing you're trying to do. Because for them, it's simple. Right?

For us, as we're going through it, it's really, really difficult. But the person who's already done it, looking back, it's simple. For me, now, the mindset and belief of, "I can do this," is simple now. I get it. I can help somebody with that really, really easily. Whereas in the moment, it was impossible. It felt impossible. Right?

Launching a software company felt like an impossible moment, and now it's super easy. So it's finding people who... The thing you're struggling with now is super easy, because they've already done it multiple times. Getting around them. Hiring them. Paying them. And learning how to think like them. Right? It's always a shift in thinking and belief.

And so it's coming back and saying, "Okay. I've got to think like them. I've got to believe like them." I think a lot of times, many of us... and I see this a lot with people who hire me... they hire me, or they hire a coach, and then they try to get the coach to believe or think like they do. And I'm the opposite: I'm not coming to you to try to influence your beliefs. I'm coming to you to change my beliefs.

And that's a hard thing to do. Right? Our ego gets in the way a lot of times. So it's coming and saying, "Okay. I'm a blank slate. I'm going to do whatever you say." In fact, it's funny, because inside our community, we have the... Kaelin Poulin started it with the whole hashtag, #dowhatrussellsays. And at first, I was really embarrassed by it. But now, it's so cool! Because it's like, "Yeah. If you're hiring me to be your coach, just do what I say!"

If I hire a coach, I just do what they say. I literally just... In fact, I'm working on my fourth book right now. And I have a quote. One of my friends wrote this in a blog post. He was talking about his morning routine, and why he does this really weird thing. And he says in the thing, he said, "People ask me why I do this." He said, "Because Tony Robbins told me so, and I obey all giants who fly helicopters and have stage presence."

And so for me, it's always been this joke: Now, when I hire a coach, whatever they say, I say, "I obey all giants who fly helicopters and have stage presence." Right? If I hire someone, I just believe them inherently, because I did the work ahead of time to see if I'm going to believe them. If I believe them, I give them my money. And I do whatever they say, and I don't deviate from that. Right? So people in my world say hashtag, "#dowhatrussellsays."

For me, it's hashtag, "#dowhatstevencollinssays." That's the guy who I hired right now who is mentoring me. Whatever he says, I just do it. I don't fight. I don't question. He's been there a million times. And so I just do what all giant... You know? I obey all giants with helicopters and stage presence. I obey whoever I pay to teach me something, because they know what I don't know.

And so for me, that's kind of the process: Find the hurdle. Find out who's already done it. Get that person. And then obey them, and just follow what they say to a T. So I hope that helps. Jermaine: That made perfect sense. So you basically trust yourself, and then you do what your coaches say? Russell: 100 percent. Yep! I do the work ahead of time. Before I hire the coach, I got to make sure I believe this coach is right. But if I believe they're right, then yes, I just do whatever they say.

And so I see people, sometimes, blindly will sign up for coaching, or they'll hire a mentor, or whatever. And then they just kind of blindly follow the person. The person might not be right for them. But I do the homework ahead of time. And then when I know, "Okay. I'm committed. This is the person." Then I go all in, and I just put on blinders and follow them.

Jermaine: Got you. I appreciate that. What was that book again? I'm going to have to write that down.

Russell: Atlas Shrugged. So the way to remember it is Atlas is the god that's holding the weight of the world on his shoulders. And the premise of the book is: The producers, the entrepreneurs, people like us who are trying to... We're literally holding the weight of the world on our shoulders. Right? We're creating companies. We're creating jobs, and doing all these things. What would happen if Atlas just shrugged and walked away from his responsibilities?

So the book is about that. What happens when the producers get so much pressure from government and society where it's no longer worth it to them, so they shrug, and they walk away from their responsibilities? And so that's the premise of the book, which is so fascinating. I'm actually listening to it again right now, which is fun. But it's a 1500-page book. It's intense. If you listen to the audiobook, it's eight audiobooks. That's how big it is. But man, it's worth it!

Jermaine: I'm going to grab both of them right now. I've got all of your books. I've been following you for a while. My favorite one is the DotCom Secrets.

Russell: Oh, very cool! Thanks, man! I appreciate that.

Yhennifer: Awesome! Thank you.

Jermaine: You're welcome.

Yhennifer: ... Jermaine. Thank you for being here today. I'm going to reset the room really quickly. We are, right now, listening to the Marketing Secrets Live podcast. This room is actually being recorded. Make sure you follow the house at the top so that you can get a notification when Russell goes live again here. Now, we are going to give the mic to Jeff. Welcome, Jeff! He is a product launch expert, has made over $8 million from 22 launches in three years. What question do you have for Russell, Jeff?

Russell: What's up, Jeff?

Jeff: Hey, Russell! What's going on, buddy?

Russell: Good to hear from you.

Jeff: So hey, being in your inner circle for the last five years, I've had the awesome pleasure of watching all the big house marketing initiatives that you've incorporated into the funnels that you and the rest of the ClickFunnels community launched, and also at your annual Funnel Hacking Live event with Village Impact and O.U.R., as you mentioned.

So what's been cool to see is the more funnels and events you launch, the more you're able to give back, which is awesome. So how are you thinking about incorporating that live launch strategy that you've been doing with, perhaps, more of an evergreen launch strategy now? With things like OFA, your quarterly Two Comma Club Live virtual event, and now the DotCom Secrets Summit that you just launched, with some of these... trying to also bring in these new live launches.

I know you have Funnel Hacking Live coming up in a few months. Can you just talk about... Each month, what are you looking at in terms of evergreen versus live?

Russell: Yeah. That's a good question. That's something we could talk about for a long time. You know? I think it's interesting. I watch somebody like Tony Robbins, who... He does UPW four times a year. He does Date with Destiny twice a year. And he does these things. And he's been doing it live for decades now. Three or four decades, he's been doing these events. If you go to them, they're very similar every single time. And for me, it's tough, because if I go back and I teach the same thing twice, I want to pull my hair out!

You know? And I'm like, "I don't know how Tony has been so consistent for so long." And so for me, it's like there's this blend. Right? There's things that... The DotCom Secrets book came from me from a decade of me teaching these principles. I was doing events, and speaking at other people's events, and teaching these principles. And finally, I was like, "If I have to tell this story about the value ladder one more time, I'm going to kill myself." Right? So that's when I finally was like, "I'm going to write a book."

So I wrote a book. And it was like, "Here it is. It's now evergreen. I can give it to people. And I don't want to talk about this thing again." Right? A similar thing happened with Expert Secrets. And you were in the inner circle, and I was... We spent three years geeking out on webinars, and conversions, and psychology, and all this kind of stuff. And I was like, "I don't ever want to talk about this again." So I turned it into a book.

And I was like, "Hey, there's the blueprint!" And so I look at the online stuff through a very similar way. Right? We did the Two Comma Club Live event that first time, and then my energy was there. I was excited. It was fun. We created it. We launched it. It was amazing! But then, I was like... For me, it's like art. I didn't want to just be like, "Hey, it's done!"

And walk away from it. But I didn't want to teach it again. So it's like, "Okay. How do I turn this experience into something that's now evergreen?" That we can keep the message going on. Right? So that when I'm dead and gone, my kids can keep running the ads, and keep running the event, and it'll keep producing. Because for me, all the stuff we do is art. And so I want to sustain it.

So I'm always looking: Is there something I can do that I can create it, but then it'll last? It'll live beyond myself. Right? If you've read Ryan Holiday's book, The Perennial Seller... In fact, he spoke last year at Funnel Hacking Live about that book. I was like, "I want you to talk about Perennial Seller!" He was like, "I've written eight books since then!" I was like, "I know, but that's my favorite one! You've got to talk about that."

But in Perennial Seller, he talks about the difference between art that lasts forever versus stuff that happens and is gone. Right? A good example is in movies. Right? Avatar, for a long time, was the greatest selling movie of all time. But if you ask someone to quote an Avatar line, there's not a person on this Earth who can remember anything from that movie. Right?

It was a great seller, but then it died. Right? And so many people in our industry do a big sell, and then it dies. And it disappears. Versus you create a movie like Star Wars, where it lives beyond itself... It has legacy. It's a perennial seller. It'll continue to do well for a million years from now. Or you have TV shows. Right? You look at Seinfeld versus Friends: Friends was very much successful in the moment, but then it hasn't lived on as well as something like Seinfeld, which has lived on in perpetuity for so long.

Much more of a perennial seller. And so I was always trying to create things that could be perennial sellers. And so when I do do something like that where I think it can last beyond itself, where things are strategic enough that they're not tactical, and they're going to change. Where they're strategic and we can do it, I want those things to live forever. So again, that's the Summits. That's the Two Comma Club Live, and things like that. But then we have our big hits.

Right? Funnel Hacking Live, it's a big show. It's what's working now. You know? We put all this energy and this effort into it, but we know it's a one-time show. Right? And it happens. It's done. It's over. And then next year, we're going to plan a new one. And we can't evergreen Funnel Hacking Live. Right? It's a little bit different. And so it's just looking at those kind of things.

You know? Sometimes, you're going to have an Avatar hit. And you should totally go and take the 100 billion dollars it makes and cash it, because that's awesome. But other things you create, you want the longevity. And so for me, that's how I'm looking at things. It's just like, "Okay. What things have longevity? What things do I want to be a perennial seller? What things do I think can last just beyond a product launch or beyond a thing?"

And as soon as it's done, then it's like, "Okay. How do we morph that into something now that can last beyond the moment?" So that's kind of how I look at things in my head, how I figure things out. And then on top of that, it's just... You know? We're still kind of figuring it out. So some things, we're finding that we launch and we make the perennial version, they don't last long.

They're still there. So people can find them, but they're not... The longevity is not there. We can't continue to buy ads to it. Whereas One Funnel Way, it's crazy! To this day, One Funnel Way has been running almost three years now. We fill up 1500 every two weeks to a 100 dollar, paid challenge. And it continues to convert. It continues to work. It continues to... That one is, of all the things we've done, the most perennial, and just continues to work.

And I wouldn't have guessed that going into it until we tried to make the evergreen version. And it kept working. And it's like, "Oh, my gosh! This is amazing!" So yeah. I don't know if that answers the question. But kind of... That's how I think through things, and how I'm looking at stuff.

Myron: Can I ask you a question about that, Russell?

Russell: Yeah, Myron! I'd love to.

Myron: What advertising methodologies are you using to put 1500 people in a challenge every two weeks? Because that sounds phenomenal!

Russell: Yeah! A couple things: Number one is we pay 100 percent affiliate commission. So the only people who go through it refer people, and it's 100 bucks, and they get 100 percent of that 100 bucks. Number two is that I can spend 100... I can lose money. So I can spend 150, 200 dollars to sell a challenge.

So I can spend a lot of money to do it, because again, 100 percent of the money goes directly back into advertising. We're not trying to make money on the challenge. As you know, all the money is in the back. And amateurs focus on the front end. So we liquidate it. 100 percent of our money goes into the ad spin. And number three, I think, is just... The message is right. For some reason, that message, it lives long. Right? The people, if it's their very first time... You look at the headline.

It's like, "If you want to launch your first or your next funnel." So if it's their first one, it's like, "Oh, this is going to help me." Number two, it's like if you've launched a funnel but, "I need to go back and do this again," it gives you a chance to review it and go back through it. And I'd say the last thing is we weave that theme into all of our offers now. If you look at everything, every offer leads back to OFA. You buy all my books? OFA is in that sales flow. You do one of our challenges, it leads back to OFA. So it's weaved into everything now.

So it's plugged into the back end of everything we're doing. And so no matter what somebody buys, all roads lead to the One Funnel Way challenge eventually, which is pretty cool.

Myron: Wow!

Russell: Yeah. And we're working on, now-

Myron: Great stuff.

Russell: We're working on a One Funnel Away e-commerce version of the OFA challenge next, which I'm really excited for as well. So anyway-

Dan: And you do that live every two weeks?

Russell: So I don't. I recorded it live once. And we have a team, now, though. So we have a team of... One person runs it, and three or four coaches. And so every week, they reset a new Facebook group. And then they're in there full-time answering questions. And then they stream. The trades that were live at one time, they stream them into the Facebook group. And all the interaction happens there. So it feels very alive. People know it's not alive, but it feels very live. It's executed live. It's not like logging the members in and watch...

Day-one videos. We try to replicate the experience as close as possible. And again, it's not just like, "Go watch this video and hope for the best." Literally, they watch the video, and then there's coaches in there who are answering questions, who are getting them to do the homework, who are... Full-time, their job is in there, now. Because it's been so profitable for us, man, we left... I always tell people: One of the biggest problems that us entrepreneurs have is we create something and then we move on to the next thing.

And OFA was the first thing that our group created it, and were like, "There's something magic here." And we left somebody behind. So Shane on our team, we left him behind and said, "Your job is to continue to make this better and to run it." And then he hired three or four coaches, and now there's a team of people who, full-time, all they do is make sure OFA is happening, and it's consistent, and it works.

And because we left somebody behind, that's why the fulfillment continues to improve week after week, although I'm not creating new content week after week.

Dan: And it converts similar with the streaming replay as it did with you doing it live?

Russell: Yeah. Yeah.

Dan: That's-

Russell: It was easier to sell people in initially: "Yeah, go sign up for it! Go to and watch the process!" But yes-

Dan: That's what I'm going to do right now.

Russell: 100 percent. 100 percent. And like I said, three years, we've been running that thing. We launched initially, and then we did it live again four or five months ago just to kind of refresh the whole thing. But other than that, it's the same thing. And it runs on autopilot.

Dan: And the affiliate aspect is really important, because everybody that comes in, you then say, "Hey. Do you want to make money? Did you love this challenge? Bring somebody in." And they get a commission. Can I just ask one question about that?

Russell: Yeah. Let me give one clarity, and then ask the question. So the clarity is-

Dan: Yeah.

Russell: also right when they first come in. It's like, "You paid 100 bucks for this. Do you want this to be free? Invite a friend." It's right when they sign up. It's like, "Bring by a friend," and now it's free for them, because they just get one person to sign up, and now it's free.

Dan: Okay. That... Okay. So that's my question, is: You guys have really, truly went just deep in the affiliate game. And I almost feel like, sometimes, going all-in on the affiliate game is like... I'd rather pay my customers and my clients than pay Zuckerberg. Do you know what I mean? Honestly! And so my question to you, on that, is: How do you train somebody who is a normal customer, who is not an affiliate or a traditional super affiliate, to actually refer people to you? Obviously, you have to tell them, "Hey, here's how you refer people." What's your best tip for that?

Russell: Yeah. The best tip is you have to think about it differently. A lot of people are thinking about, "I'm going to make him an affiliate, and teach him about affiliate marketing!" And the average customer, they're not going to be an affiliate. Right? You look at...

The people in e-com space do this really well, a lot of times, and other places, where it's... The position is not how to make a bunch of money as an affiliate. The position is, "How do you get this product for free?" Right? It's like, "Hey. You get three people to sign up for this, or..." You know? Whatever. For me, it's like, "You get one person to sign up, and now it's free." That's how you position it. And they're like, "Oh, my gosh! I can tell my brother!"

And then, "I'm doing this challenge, too! I'm going to invite my friend, and I actually get paid for it?" And so you get them passing it around. They're not looking at it as a business opportunity as much as, "How do you get the thing you just bought for free? How do you get your money back very, very, quickly?" That's the shift. Right?

Because they're not going to go sign up 100 people, but they are going to get one or two. Right? And if every person brings in one or two, it becomes this self-fulfilling machine that just keeps growing, and things like that. And so it's just looking at it differently, and just showing... That's the positioning. Right? It's not how to be affiliates. It's, "Get this thing for free by telling three people to-"

Dan: So you're not giving them any sort of extensive training? You're just pretty much hoping that one customer will refer, maybe, a couple... few... people. But it's a consistent thing, rather than, "Hey. Here's this training on how to refer more people." And you... But-

Russell: Yeah. Because they're not going to buy ads. They're not going to... They don't have an email list. But they're going through this. They believe in it now, and they don't want to feel dumb. And it's like, "If I can get my friends in this and do it together, now it's a fun thing. And we can study together." And that's the-

Dan: Oh, the accountability! Oh, my gosh! That's so good! Okay. All right. That was awesome. That was gold.

Russell: Awesome.

Yhennifer: Light bulbs are going off here! I love it! I hope everyone is taking notes. I want to add one more thing to the OFA stuff, Russell, if it's okay with you?

Russell: Yeah.

Yhennifer: Because I see what goes on in the Facebook community, and I just wanted to add that people sometimes buy the OFA more than once just because they want the accountability of the coaches. They come back. They see that it has so much value that they're like, "100 dollars? I'm in!" So we also see that as well.

Russell: Yeah. The OFA lifers, it's almost a continuity program. They re-sign up every single month, because they don't want to lose the connection with the team!

Yhennifer: Yes! Yes. It's amazing. So if you have not done the One Funnel Way, go to It's an awesome, awesome offer.

Yhennifer: Okay. We have one more guest here, Michael Hoffman. He's a digital marketer and an owner of a digital media agency. So Michael, what question do you have for Russell?

Michael: Hi, everyone! Thanks so much for having me up here. Russell, thanks so much for providing all the value. You mentioned something before, that there was this hashtag, "#dowhatrussellsays." And earlier this year, I read Traffic Secrets, started my podcast. The other day, I finished your new Expert Secrets. I'm going to work on my weekly webinar now.

So doing what Russell says actually works! So my question is a little different, and more mindset-related. You have an extensive past in... almost professional sports. You were a wrestler for many, many years. And you made that transition into entrepreneurship. And I have a past as a professional basketball player, and also transitioned into... first, to a full-time job, and then entrepreneurship. And for me, it was a very difficult time to shift my identity.

And I just wanted to get your... yeah, basically... experiences on how you experienced that phase, to transition from full-time sports to entrepreneurship, and what helped you to complete this identity shift?

Russell: Oh, very cool! It's interesting. I think... Not always, but I feel like athletes often do really good in entrepreneurship. And I think the reason why... I've thought about this a lot... It's because for me, with wrestling... I'm sure it's the same for you with basketball... Every day, for me, I'd step out on the mat. And there was the guy I'm going against. And we'd wrestle. And a lot of times, I lost.

A lot of times, I won. But I got used to failure, and it didn't destroy my identity when I failed. Right? I feel like a lot of people get into entrepreneurship, and they're so scared that if they try something and it fails, that it means that they're a failure. Versus in wrestling, I'd fail, and I'm like, "Cool! Now I know how to beat this guy!" Watch the film, figure it out next time I go back, and I try to beat him again. Right?

And it's a different mindset where failure meant I could learn something, versus failure meant I was a failure. And I see that so many times in entrepreneurs, where they'll sit in club house rooms, or podcasts, or read books for years, and years, and years, and never do anything, because they're so scared of that failure. Whereas athletes have experienced it. You know? I lost tons of matches! You know?

So I'm used to that failure, and I'm okay with it, and I don't label myself as a "failure." So I think that's why athletes do well, just because they have had that experience. But on the other question, that identity shift: So it was interesting. So my wrestling career, that was my life, as you know. It was probably similar to you. I was a wrestler. If you asked me, "Russell, what are you?" I'd go, "I'm a wrestler." And so I was. And I wrestled all the way through college.

And I remember at the end of college is when I started learning some of the internet business and figured things out. And my senior year, I ended up losing the Pac-10 Tournament. I thought I was going to go to Nationals and place. And I had... My entire life, I was focused on this goal. And I ended up losing the Pac-10s and not qualifying for the National Tournament my senior year, which was horrible for me. Right?

My entire everything just stopped. I remember sitting there on the side of the mat crying, and just... "It's done. I can't even achieve my goal if I wanted to. It's gone! There's no..." It was weird not being able to achieve a goal. And I remember, luckily for me, I had this entrepreneurship thing happening at the time that I was learning about. Because if I didn't have something, I think I would have gone into this downward spiral of depression just knowing that the thing I'd been dreaming about for 20 years, I know longer...

It's physically impossible for me to do, now. It's out of... It's impossible. And so for me, luckily, I had this business. And I started focusing my time and energy there. And it gave me something to do, to focus on a new goal. And that was the big goal, the big thing. And so, because I was able to transition pretty easily... Because I had just... I was trying to avoid the pain of my old identity dying, and so I had to shift over here.

And so I think, for people who are making that transition, it's... I mean, you used the word "identity shift," which was the right word. Right? It's like you have to shift that identity. And I don't know how to... I mean, in fact, we have Anthony Trucks, who is going to be speaking at Funnel Hacking Live specifically on identity shifting yourself, which I'm excited for. He's geeked out on this at a level that I don't think anyone else really has, and so it's going to be fun to have him go into it on the process. Because I don't know exactly what the process was, other than that I knew that I shifted.

And then I started looking at it like a sport. I said, "Okay. What's the goal? What am I going to win?" You know? "Who are my teammates? Who do I got to get to know? Who are the competitors? Who do I have to beat?" And I just used the same mindset. And I think that a lot of people come into business, and they look at it different than a sport, which is interesting when you look at it.

It's like, "Oh, I'm here to..." You know? I don't know. I did a podcast three or four years ago. I still remember where I was at when I recorded it, because when we came out with ClickFunnels, for me, it was... It's a combat sport. I'm looking: "Okay, who are the competitors? Who are the people out there?" And at first, it was like, "Leepages! That's who I have to beat!" Because in wrestling, that's what I did: "All right. Who is the guy that I got to beat?"

I looked at him. We studied film. We figured it out, and we got to the point where I could beat that person. And we found the next person in the next tier up. We found the person, identified the target, reverse-engineered their style, and learned how to beat them. And so for me, it was the same thing. Leepages was the first person on our hit list. Right? So we came out. And those who were around when we launched ClickFunnels, it was very aggressive.

It was not... You know? I was like, "This is our competitors. We're going after them." And we went after them. Then we got to the point where we beat Leepages, and we passed them. After we passed them, it was like, "Hey, who is the next competitor?" For us, it was Infusionsoft. And I was like, "There's no way we can beat Infusionsoft. They're huge!" But I'm like, "That's the goal!" And so we figured out who they were. We reverse-engineered it. You know? Went after them, and ended up far surpassing them. And it was interesting, because I remember the CEO and me...

He's a really nice guy. But he messaged me one time, and he asked me... He was like, "Why do you hate Infusionsoft so much?" And I'm like, "I don't hate you! I'm grateful for you! You're the person..." I needed somebody to get me motivated. Otherwise, as a competitor, if I'm just... I'm not here just to make money. That was what inspired. It inspired me. It was the victory, trying to figure out the next person who we're going after. Right?

And I told... It's kind of like that scene in Batman, The Dark Knight, where Joker asks Batman, "Why do you hate me?" And he's like, "I don't hate you! You fulfill me! I need you! Without you, there's no me!" Right? And so for me, that was the transition. It was like... I didn't take the competitiveness out of me. I kept it. Everything I did that drove me in wrestling, I kept that.

But I focused it over here in business. And so the identity shift wasn't huge. It was just a different game. Right? Same athlete. Same competitive nature. Same everything. But the game was different, and so I had to figure out the game, figure out the rules, figure out the players, figure out the competition, and then make it fun for me. And so for me, that's kind of, I think, how I was able to make that transition. Yeah. I don't know if that answers the question.

But that's kind of the mindset behind, for me, how I was going to make that transition. And at Funnel Hacking Live, Anthony Trucks will show us the actual process to shift identity, which I'm so excited for!

Michael: Awesome! Thank you so much! That was really helpful, just listening to your experience and hearing it from someone else. And I like the competitive aspect, and the perseverance that we have as athletes to transition that into entrepreneurship.

Russell: Yeah. Well, very cool, man. Thanks for jumping on the show. I appreciate it!

Yhennifer: Awesome! Thank you, Michael, for being here. And Russell, I think that wraps up our Marketing Secrets podcast today!

Russell: How fun! Well, thanks, you guys, all for jumping on and hanging out. We're going to continue to do these. I'm having fun with it so far. So hopefully, you guys are as well. For those who are listening to the recording: If you want to make sure you get on the next live one and maybe get your question answered live, go to

That'll redirect you to our clubhouse page. Go follow the room, and we'll do this again soon. Thank you for all of our guest speakers who jumped on: Keenya, Dan, and Myron. I appreciate you guys jumping on and sharing your thoughts, as well. Hopefully, some of the conversations we had were stimulating and helped you think about yourself, think about your charity, think about your funnels, all this stuff. Hopefully, you guys enjoyed it. If you did, let us know!

And if you want to hear the recording of this, make sure you subscribe to the Marketing Secrets podcast on any of the platforms. We're there. Probably in the next week or so, it'll go up live there, and you can go and re-listen to all the stuff we talked about. So thank you Yhennifer for all the time and effort you put into it, and everybody else here on the clubhouse team. I'm grateful for everybody. And with that said, I guess we'll see you guys all on the next episode!


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