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495 - Is My Value Ladder Backwards?

In this episode, Russell and Alison answer the question "Is my value ladder backwards?"

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In this episode, Russell and Alison answer the question "Is my value ladder backwards?"

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Dan Kennedy used to tell me this all the time. He's like, "You got to look at yourself like you're the guru on the mountain, and people are trying to come to you, but what are the things that could happen at this steps and each step as they get higher on the mountain or higher up the value ladder?" They get more and more access to you.


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Russell Brunson: What's up, everybody? This is Russell. Welcome back to the Marketing Secrets podcast. We've got some more Q&As from the Ecomm Vs Expert Smackdown. You guys have really been enjoying it. I've got a lot of really good feedback. So, we got a couple more before the series is over, but this next one is a really good question. Is my value ladder backwards? Some people come in this world and they start with high-ticket coaching or something really expensive, and they read Dotcom Seekers and they're freaked out because they're like, "I don't have a value ladder. I have nothing on the front end of the..." It's interesting because for me the value ladder is my business model, like here's the plan, here's where I'm going. Eventually, I'm going to bring people in and move them through this whole thing, but the fear I've always had teaching the value ladder is that one of two things happen.

Number one is that people try to build everything on the value ladder before they launch their business, and that's not the plan. That's number one, is they're trying to get everything done before they get started. Then the second problem people have is they think that, "Okay, that means I have to start from the bottom of the value ladder," and for me the bottom of my value ladder is what, are my books. Now, all things I've ever created, I think that's the hardest and takes the most time and energy and effort, are my books. Yet they're things that cost the least amount of money. So, I could spend three years writing a book, try to launch it, and make no money at all, or you can start higher up the value ladder. In fact, most people I recommend starting in the middle of the value ladder or the back of the value ladder.

Some people I say, "We should start with a webinar," or, "We should start with a high-ticket thing," or something because usually, it's easier to do that, make more money, and then as you start scaling, that's when you start moving down the value ladder to go to colder and colder audiences. So, anyway, I talk about that and other stuff in this question, and I think it'll be helpful for any of you guys who are wondering about that. We went off on a couple other tangents, fun directions and things, but I think you'll enjoy this one, especially for those who are wondering, "Where do I start? Do I need a value ladder? Am I going to create one? Where does this fit? God, what do I do first and second and third?" So, I hope this episode's great for you. We're going to cue the theme song. When with come back, we're going to dive into is my value ladder backwards.

Brent Coppieters: Next question from Li-Sann Mullings, I hope I pronounced her name right. She says, "I feel I built my business backwards when it comes to the value ladder. It starts with the high-ticket coaching. I have courses and other products, et cetera. What's the best vehicle slash approach to get these out in a ClickFunnels world?"

Russell: Very cool.

Great to meet you. How you doing?

Li-Sann Mullings: Hi. Thank you.

Russell Brunson: Yeah. So, one thing, actually, I want to... So, this is the pros and cons of the Dotcom Secrets book. I teach people this concept, the value ladder, and a couple things you have. One is that people go in and they try to build every single tier of the value ladder before they launch their business. It's like, no, the value ladder's like your business plan. Where are we going? The second thing is people always think you have to start at the very bottom tier of the value ladder. For me, the bottom tier of the value ladder is my books. My books, of all things I've ever created, have been the hardest to create. So, if I would've started with the book, it would've taken me 10 years before I sold anything. Eileen Wilder spoke at Funnel Hacking Live, and she said basically, she did it backwards, like, "I started with the high ticket. I made a bunch of money off high ticket, and then from there I was able to invest in the lower ticket and moving things down."

I actually do think for most people I coach that is a better strategy, is to start with the high ticket, because you're able to get more money. It's easier to break even on ad spend and things like that. In Eileen's presentation at Funnel Hacking Live, she actually shared Elon Musk's business model. She was like, "When Elon Musk first launched the Tesla, he didn't launch the $30,000 Tesla and then move up to the 80 and then 100. The first one he launched was the $200,000 pimped out, super expensive, awesome Tesla, and he did that, launched it out there, got all the cash, and then from there was able to create the next tier and the next tier and the next tier. But he led with high ticket as well." So, I'm actually a big proponent of, especially in the extra business, to lead with high ticket, so you can do a webinar or high-ticket sales because it's the fastest way to get money, and then from there you can reinvest and build the lower-ticket funnels. Does that help a little bit?

Li-Sann Mullings: Yeah. That's really helpful, Russell, because to be honest with you, I have a really thriving high-ticket coaching practice, and I'm really burnt out. I'm passionate about what I do. I have the best gig in the whole world, and to be honest with you, when I started pivoting, I found ClickFunnels, and one of my dreams was to say thank you to you in person.

Russell Brunson: Oh, wow.

Li-Sann Mullings: You're looking at someone who I called my son in a college class to ask him how to get my iPod to work a few years ago, and now I build funnels. I love building them. My magical child is so happy. I don't have to call anyone when I have an idea at midnight. So, you really saved my life. I just really want to-

Russell Brunson: Oh, man.

Li-Sann Mullings: ... say that to you. My son, he's 23 now, and he's so tickled that I'm a funnel hacker. He's like, "Who is this Russell Brunson guy?" To get his mom to be happy just sitting there, making funnels and changing my stuff, he thinks you're like God. You're so talented. So, my very first funnel that I built about three months ago, I ran a three-day challenge with it, $37. I did the order bump, and I made a little under $1,000 on that funnel, which was great for me because typically, I teach them for free and I never make any money, and my offer is screwed up because I don't know how to sell group programs, so I guess I have a lot of assets. I have a lot of creatives. I've done this for so long now that I've always worked with these frameworks, but I call them roadmaps. They're actually a signature collection of roadmaps, and-

Russell Brunson: Awesome.

Li-Sann Mullings: So, for me, it's really trying to understand how to scale down as far as the ladder in order to leverage, and I'm not quite sure... What would you advise me to do?

Russell Brunson: Because right now you're doing all coaching one-on-one, right?

Li-Sann Mullings: Hmm? H

Russell Brunson: Because I know all your coaching's one-on-one right now, right? Is that the-

Li-Sann Mullings: All my coaching is one-on-one, and they're successful women entrepreneurs who are... I call it, how you say in your books, and I have them, they're right here, that you teach people how to make their funnels work, I teach people how to make their life work.

Russell Brunson: That's awesome.

Li-Sann Mullings: The people who positive thinking has failed them, they can’t break through mindset stuff on their own, because they're all these deep core wounded, so I'm like the “woo” person, and I'm a healer, a shaman, a spiritual coach, and I go deep and find what's blocking them, not just the frivolous, "Oh, just break through your limitations."

Russell Brunson: Yeah.

Li-Sann Mullings: So, I have a really thriving practice that way for 20 years, but I'm really burnt out, and I really am called to have my things go out to more people in a bigger way. My guides, the father, God, has shared with me that these pathways that I've built, frameworks, for years, are meant to serve in a bigger way. So, I just really am so stuck as far as where to start.

Russell Brunson: Well, one thing, as a funnel hacker, you should be able to watch... Hopefully, you've been paying attention to what we've been doing. If you've noticed, Two Comma Club, my coaching program, is a group coaching program. There was a time when Alison, you were in Inner Circle. I was the only one doing all the coaching one-on-one by myself, and same thing. I got to the point where I was like, "I can't. All this is getting too heavy." So, we launched Two Comma Club X program, but what we did, if you look strategically, I was like, "Who are people I've served that have had success?" Alison's one of them. A lot of the other coaches, the people that are the coaches and the mentors in groups are people who I've had a chance to work with who understand my systems and my processes, and now the group coaching works where I can come in, and Alison and I can do group coaching like this, but then our coaches are the teachers' aides who are able to go deep specifically with somebody and go deeper and one-on-one with their core issues and things. Right?

Li-Sann Mullings: Yeah.

Russell Brunson: If they get stuck, they can come back to us and we can help them get through it, but that way it takes some of the one-on-one pressure off of your shoulders. So, I'd be curious, for the 20 years doing it, I'm sure that you've helped a lot of people who are fascinated by this…

Li-Sann Mullings: Oh, my god.

Russell Brunson: ... process, and have probably tried to learn that stuff.

Li-Sann Mullings: Yeah.

Russell Brunson: Imagine if you took a group of four or five of them and certified them or trained them to work underneath you, to do your processes on somebody else. Right?

Li-Sann Mullings: Yeah. They could do a certain level of my roadmaps because there's a chemical... This signature system that I work with has these different pillars, and then that first pillar is breaking through awareness, elevating awareness, the clarity blockers, and on and on and on. So, yeah, they could do that, but the other pieces really requires that you're a shaman and you're a healer and you're a multidimensional child. So, it takes me into those places that-

Russell Brunson: So, that's the same thing for me. So, let's look at my program, Two Comma Club X. This is where Alison and I are in group, and we have coaches and mentors that do everything, and they get people to a certain level. My goal in that program is get people to Two Comma Club. When they get to Two Comma Club, then they graduate and they have a chance to be invited to my Inner Circle, and my Inner Circle is also a group program. Right?

Li-Sann Mullings: Yeah.

Russell Brunson: The first tier of the Inner Circle, and then inside that group, they have to pass $10 million in sales. Then they come up to my inner, called the Category Kings, and there is me one-on-one with them. So, they work up towards me. So, they get the first level of stuff. You get the first set of skillsets where you guys get Two Comma Club, boom, make them Inner Circle. Now we're in a smaller group. I'm still facilitating this in a smaller group. We're having different conversations that are... Because you've already solved other conversations like, what am I selling, how am I selling it? That's to figure out Two Comma Club X. Now it's like, "Hey, now I've got a business. How do I scale? How do I hire teams? How do I get employees? How do I figure out my operating procedures?" All this stuff that people need from a million to 10 million, that happens in Inner Circle, and then Category Kings is like, "I'm trying to change the world. How do we do that?" and now I'm one-on-one with them. It's me and them and nobody else because that's where I touch in. Right?

Li-Sann Mullings: Uh-huh (affirmative).

Russell Brunson: So, for you it's looking at the same thing. What's the levels? How does it work? Dan Kennedy used to tell me this all the time. He's like, "You got to look at yourself like you're the guru on the mountain, and people are trying to come to you, but what are the things that could happen at this steps and each step as they get higher on the mountain or higher up the value ladder?" They get more and more access to you. Right?

Li-Sann Mullings: Okay.

Russell Brunson: So, that's looking at it from that standpoint.

Li-Sann Mullings: That's so helpful.

Russell Brunson: Yeah.

Li-Sann Mullings: So, within the ClickFunnels community, as far as training and where to, where would be... Is this a program then that I would come into to get, say, my trainings out as home study courses? Because I have so many of those written based on the work I've done for 20 years, and I know these systems work.

Russell Brunson:
I think for you there's two things. Number one, by you coming to Two Comma Club X program you have a chance to see where you're trying to model. You're going to see, okay, here's how Russell structure the thing. In fact, Darrell E. signed up for our Inner Circle, made $50,000, and he came the first time, was like, "I'm only here because I have my own coaching program. I'm trying to figure out how you run yours because it's so efficient." So, he came in just to model it. So, part of it for you is coming in to model, like, "Okay. How did Russell structure this? How are the momentum coaches? How's the performance?"

Look at the structure because this isn't something we just made up. This is 20 years of trial and error back and forth, and all the stuff Alison brought to make it where it's a process that we can systematically start pumping out Two Comma Club winners because we know the process. Looking at that, and how you model that for what you're doing, and then secondarily, yes, on the expert track we go into building home study courses and trainings and coaching, all those kind of things. So, you also get the actual helping you take the things in your head and developing them into the products, the courses, all the things you need for the programs as well.

Alison Prince: That was so much fun. How are you feeling? You feel good?

Li-Sann Mullings: I really feel good about this, and I do have physical products too, but...

Alison Prince: Okay. Let's do this first, then we'll do physical later.

Li-Sann Mullings: Yeah. The expert is my heart, so-

Russell Brunson: So cool.

Li-Sann Mullings: ... the products are great, but that's my baby steps in.

Russell Brunson: Yeah.

Alison Prince: Love it. Love it.

Li-Sann Mullings: Yeah.

Russell Brunson: So great to meet you, excited for you. This is awesome.

Li-Sann Mullings: I am really. Thank you so much.

Russell Brunson:
Thank you, too.

Li-Sann Mullings: Thank you again, Russell, and thank you Alison. What a beautiful two days.

Russell Brunson: Thank you. She's awesome.

Alison Prince: That was fun. Okay. One thing that I've done over the last five years... I know everybody says, "Do what Russell says." I also do what Russell does. I'm watching the magician not just do the trick, but I'm watching his hands. What's he doing? How's he doing this? How's he setting up this? How's he not in a closet eating Milk Duds and hiding?

Russell Brunson: Crying every night.

Alison Prince: Yeah. So, I do. I watch what he does, and why I joined the Inner Circle, honestly, because I was like, "How did he do that?" When I'm listening to him up on stage I'm like, "How did he do that, and how did he break that down, and how'd he get me to say, 'Here, take my money'?" You said I was a coupon fanatic, and for me, pulling out that money, to say, "Here's $25,000," I was like, "I need to learn that skill. I need to be closer to him, and I've got to figure this out."

Russell Brunson: Yeah.

Alison Prince: So, watch the magician's hands. Watch what we do, and don't steal our ideas. Don't copy and paste our copy. We've had that happen a lot of the times.

Russell Brunson: Too much.

Alison Prince: Yeah.

Russell Brunson: Model it.

Alison Prince: Just model it. Let us be your inspiration to it.

Russell Brunson: Yeah. This just popped in my head, so I'm going to share it, but the very first Funnel Hacking Live ever in Vegas was in 2015. The first FHL ever, we had 600 people in the audience, so I was like, "I can't believe 600 people are coming to hear us talk about funnels, for crying out loud." It was amazing. But I remember two of my friends, they weren't my friends at the time, I didn't know them, but they came, Justin and Tara Williams, and they came and they come to Funnel Hacking Live like, "We know Russell's going to try to sell something. We can't do it." So, they literally put their wallets in the hotel room and like, "We're not bring out wallets down because we don't want anything. Russell's not going to sell us stuff."

So, they did that. They came down, and sure enough, after day two I made a presentation, I made an offer, and they were like, "Okay, go up to the hotel room." So, Justin ran up, grabbed the credit card, came down, spent $25,000 and joined the program. I remember the very first meeting we had with him and his wife, and they're to this day some of my favorite people I've ever met, and they're sitting in a room and they're like... They had a business teaching people real estate, and they're like, they're struggling, they're frustrated. They had tried this and this. Nothing was really working. They had some success, but nothing exciting. I was like, "You know what you guys should do, is you should launch a $25,000 coaching program," and they're like, "People are not going to pay $25,000 to come and learn from us." I was like, "You literally paid $25,000 to learn funnels from someone who looks like me. I look like I'm 11 years old," and they're like, "That's true."

I said, "The fact that you spent $25,000, now you have permission to ask other people for $25,000." They're like, "You're right," and I said, "Okay, guess what you're doing tonight." They're like, "What?" I'm like, "You're going to email your list," and it wasn't a very big list, and I'm like, "And you're going to tell them you're launching a $25,000 coaching program, and you're going to see how many people say yes." All the nerves and the fear and everything, I'm like, "Tomorrow morning we're going to hold you accountable," and they're like, "Okay." So, that night they went to the hotel room, they freaked out for like two hours, they finally hashtag did what Russell said, sent an email to the list, and they didn't do a sales call or a phone or a stack or an event or anything. They just said, "Hey, list, we're going to do this program," and the next morning they came back, and they're like, "You have no idea what just happened." They said, "We had," I think it was 14 or 15 people, "just sent us $25,000 over the night."

Alison Prince: Wow.

Russell Brunson: I said, "That was one thing to get you outside your comfort zone," but it 15Xed his payment in the first day, and the reason is because they start thinking bigger. When Dean Graziosi came out, Dean Graziosi and Joe Polish came out with a $100,000 mastermind group, and Dean... It was the event where they were going to sell it, and it was the night before. He's like, "Hey, we're thinking about launching this $100,000 group. What do you think?" I literally pulled out my credit card. I said, "I'm in." He was like, "What?" I'm like, "I'm in." I'm like, "I want to be the very first person." He's like, "Are you serious?" I'm like, "Run my card right now." So, he went and ran my card and put it back in, and later he asked me, he was like, "Why did you... I didn't pitch you or anything." I said, "Because someday I want to launch a 100,000 mastermind group, and I can't charge someone $100,000 if I've never invested that in myself? How can I be congruent with that in any way, any stretch of the imagination?"

Then this year, some of you guys know I launched the Category Kings, which is $150,000 a year to be part of this group, and I was so scared, I freaked out. I sent an email to 200 people who I thought would be qualified, and there were only 15 spots, and the 15 spots were gone in 24 hours. If I had not invested that stuff in myself, I would not have had the guts to ask somebody else to invest it in them either. So, this is a big part of it as well, especially on the expert side, is you guys are trying to become experts and lead things like... You want your people to invest money in you. If you're not investing in yourself, there's no way it's going to happen. Okay? Myron Golden said this best. He says, "You don't attract who you want. You attract who you are," which is really interesting, because it's little, "Oh, I want people that are the best buyers, the highest ticket," da, da, da, da.

I say, "No, no, no. You're not going to attract who you want. You're going to attract who you are." That's one of the most fascinating things about the Funnel Hacker community. People always come like, "How did you build this community?" I'm like, "Because people are attracted to us. You attract people that are similar to you. So, if you're a good person, you're going to get good people to come to you. If you're a sleazy salesperson, you have sleazy salespeople who are going to show up." So, you attract not who you want, but who you are. So, who are you, the kind of person that invests in yourself? If so, you're going to attract people that invests in themselves. If not, it's going to be hard. So, just putting that out there as well to think through because half of this is investing in yourself, half of it's modeling, half of it's looking at these things, but all the pieces together is what creates this amazing environment and community that gives you the success you need. So, I'm only in dotcom.

Alison Prince: Can we have a mic drop? That was so good. Did you guys just have so many ahas there? This is why we want to be around Russell. This is why we want to be in this group, is to be able to break through and say, "Oh, that's right. I can invest in me, because if I'm not willing to invest in me, who else is going to be?" I just love how you brought that up. Absolutely, absolutely.

Russell Brunson: Cool.

Alison Prince: Doesn't the cart close soon?

Russell Brunson: Yes. So, we are actually... So, Alison and I have another 37 minutes that we are doing hot seats, and then I've got to race to my kid's wrestling match tonight, so I'm out of here, and we're going to have a 30-minute countdown clock. When it ends, that means... What is it? Basically, 1:00 Mountain Time with 3:00 East Coast, I think, ish, is when the cart closes because we have to get everything set up because Monday, the program starts, and so you guys have less than hour, about actually an hour-

Alison Prince: Hour and six minutes.

Russell Brunson: ... and six minutes and 39 seconds to make your final decision if you're in or not, and I hope you guys come in. I know that it's a scary thing, but we're here to catch you and to take you and to guide you, and like we said before, if you come in and you're like, "Oh, it's not a fit for me," we don't need your money. We'll give it back. But if you take that leap of faith, and I know it's scary and nervous and all those kind of things, just know that this is not our first rodeo. We've done this for a long time, and you're in a spot that's safe with other people who are like you, who think like you, who dream like you, even if it's hard, because the people in your existing world will be like, "You're crazy."

Hopefully, it's comforting to know that all the people in my existing world when I started thought I was crazy. When I wrote Dan Kennedy a check for $18,000 to go fly to Baltimore three times a year to not hang out with Dan Kennedy, all my friends thought I was insane. My wife, I didn't actually tell her because she would've thought I was insane and I didn't want her to leave me. I've had counseling since then to understand how a marriage is supposed to work, so now she would've known ahead of time, but she didn't because I was too scared to tell her. So, I get it. I understand those fears, but man, that leap of faith, you just feel like it's like stepping into the darkness. You're like, "There's fog and darkness. I don't see anything. I think there's something there," but you take that step of faith decision, get there, the way gets lighted a little further.

You're like, "Oh, it's there," and you take the next step leap of faith, and it gets actually a little further, and you don't know where you're going until you just keep going, and eventually you're like, "Oh, my gosh. I made it," like, "Oh, there's the path. I hadn't seen the path, but Russell and Alison have been on the path. They told me the path was there, and then sure enough, the path was there. It wasn't that bad." So, I just recommend you guys take that leap of faith. You've been here for two days. You obviously are looking for something. You feel called. You feel that feeling, and maybe you're nervous. I get it, but man, I just want you to know we're here to catch you and to take you on this journey because it's a life-changing journey. Your life will never be the same.

Alison Prince: Absolutely, absolutely. Christopher just joined. Christopher, I'm so excited for you.

Russell Brunson: Welcome, Christopher.

Alison Prince: I wonder which track he's going on.

Russell Brunson: Oh, Christopher? Expert. Come on.

Alison Prince: Ecomm.

Russell Brunson: All right. Okay. Brent, what's up next?

Brent Coppieters: Okay. Well, this has been just fricken amazing. So, we have two questions, a couple things, two questions, but I think, Russell, I just wanted to highlight something you mentioned, the access. You talked about stepping up on the mountain and getting greater access, and something that I think I want everybody who's listening to know is not only great community, not only amazing coaches, obviously, with you two and our performance coaches and momentum coaches, and all the other things, but we've got live event access as well. You'll never have an experience where you're snorkeling, you look over and there's Alison and Russell snorkeling with you. We've done the cruises. We've done cruises. This year, in a month-and-a-half, six weeks, we're headed to Mexico, and so 2CCX members are invited to attend those events. Unlock the Secrets, which is a family event, will be in Phoenix in June, which is amazing, and of course, Funnel Hacking Live, you get early access. You come to Funnel Hacking Live, you get in the room, for the best seats in the house before everybody else.

Alison Prince: That's so worth it right there.

Russell Brunson: On top of that, last year at Orlando we rented out Harry Potter Land, and all the 2CCX members came to that, which was at Hogwarts.

Alison Prince: Yes.

Russell Brunson: We rented Hogwarts, so we had the whole park to ourselves all night long. We rode rides. We drank Butterbeer. It was insane, and that was just for 2CCXers, and you hung out with my wife, my kids, and us. Yeah. You get a different level of access. You get to hang out, and it's special. It's really fun, and Hogwarts was so cool.

Alison Prince: It was unbelievable. I remember coming up to you after and I'm like, "Russell, you know you don't have to do this," and he's like, "But I can," and I love how he-

Russell Brunson: It was so cool.

Alison Prince: ... spoils all the people in his community. It's really inspirational to see, and I actually think the whole thing, do what Russell does, I think it's the ripple effect. We want you to spoil your customers. We want you to give them the best of the best out there, and who do we learn it from? We learn it from what Russell does. Then when I was shipping e-commerce, I always wanted to make my packages feel like they came from a best friends, and so I packaged a little bit differently, and we just build these relationships because we know about humans, and we understand how they work, and we want you guys out there serving the world, making a difference.

Russell Brunson: So cool.


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