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67 - How Front End Funnels Affect Churn On Your Back End Funnels

67 - How Front End Funnels Affect Churn On Your Back End Funnels

Listen To Today's Episode: 

Episode Recap:

During the simplification of our value ladder, we discovered some really cool stuff. On this episode Russell talks about how his company has spent the last few weeks focusing on the value ladder and what they changed. Here are some awesome things you will hear in this episode:

-- Find out what some of the analytics and churn rate are for some of Russell’s current front end offers.

-- Find out where you should start on the value ladder if you are a beginner.

-- And Find out why you need to go to Funnel Hacking Live to get the real scoop on all of this stuff.

So listen here to find out how your front end funnels can affect churn on the back end.

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Best Quote:

Hopefully you guys have heard me talk about concepts like funnel stacking, where it’s like, what’s your front end funnel and where’s that lead to the second funnel and where’s that go? And if you look at the big push that we’ve done over the last 60 days in our company, it’s to really focus on a defined value ladder and killing everything that doesn’t map to it.


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-- DotComSecrets: Get a free copy of the "Underground Playbook For Growing Your Company Online With Sales Funnels."

​-- Expert Secrets: Get a free copy of the "Underground Playbook For Converting Your Online Visitors Into Lifelong Customers."

-- ​Traffic Secrets: Get a free copy of the "Underground Playbook For Filling Your Websites And Funnels With Your Dream Customers.


What’s up everybody? This is Russell Brunson and welcome to the Marketing Secrets podcast.

Alright, alright you guys. I’m heading to the office, it’s a rainy day which is nice, it’s melting all the snow. Boise had a really calm winter this year. Last year we had snow-pololypse, where if you were watching Instagram and Snapchat back then you saw how we had, our kids had like ten days off of school because of snow days, we had raid Walmart for water and generators, it was insanely cool, and then nothing really happened that was that bad. This year, it’s just been a mild winter for us, so it’s kind of nice.

I wanted to share a couple of cool things because these are cool things that are happening that I just can’t not share. So hopefully you guys have heard me talk about concepts like funnel stacking, where it’s like, what’s your front end funnel and where’s that lead to the second funnel and where’s that go? And if you look at the big push that we’ve done over the last 60 days in our company, it’s to really focus on a defined value ladder and killing everything that doesn’t map to it.

In fact, we’ve shut down two multimillion dollar programs because they did not fit in the value ladder, which is kind of insane, but nevertheless we did, because that’s what we’re doing. Pure focus on, focus and respect for the value ladder. So people come in and there’s this process, so if you look at the way our value ladder is working now, there’s one big piece that I’m revealing at Funnel Hacking Live that I can’t reveal yet, it’s so cool though. It’s the key that glues this whole thing together, that ascends people through the process. It’s so cool. So cool. I’m doing a whole presentation on it at Funnel Hacking Live.

So if you don’t have your tickets yet, go to to get your tickets for the greatest event on planet earth. The greatest show on earth. You can call me P.T. Barnum if you want, this will literally be the greatest show on earth.

Anyway, if you look at our value ladder, it’s very defined. Front end offers that all lead then to one centralized middle offer, which then all lead to one centralized back end offer. And that’s it. And then my creativity gets to happen on a whole bunch of front end offers.

So we were doing some data and analytics and this is the coolest thing ever, one of the big things we’re trying to figure out in Clickfunnels, because it’s like, here’s the front end offers, middle is Clickfunnels and then the top is hiring coaching. It used to be Inner Circle for life, until we filled that up. So now we have a new program coming out soon that’s going to be kind of our back end coaching program.

Anyway, what was cool, we did a bunch of analytics, we went through and looked at all of our front end offers, I think we got half a dozen or so that are active, and then based on that, what was the retention rate of people in the second tier of the value ladder based on the frame that they came into our value ladder through, which was fascinating, so fascinating.

So check this out, if people, the first thing they bought from us was the 108 Split Tests book, and then from there they ascended into Clickfunnels, our churn rate on people that that was the front end offer they came through, is less than 3%, insanely cool. Now if you shift, if you go the Dotcom Secrets book, someone buys the Dotcom Secrets book and then creates a Clickfunnels account, the churn rate is like 5%, so it’s a little bit worse, but still pretty good. Then if you go to, what are the other ones….Expert Secrets has higher, I think Expert Secrets is like 9% churn rate. Perfect Webinar was like 7 or 8, I can’t remember off the top of my head.

If they just came to Clickfunnels homepage and watched the viral video it’s like almost 30%. So because of this data, you’ll see some big updates happening to Clickfunnels homepage. But it’s just interesting that like, the frame that they enter your value ladder in dramatically effects the retention rate of them through the rest of the value ladder. Isn’t that fascinating?

Obviously there’s, it’s not a perfect science because somebody who’s looking for split testing or who buys a split testing offer, just by default of what it is, is probably more likely to be further along in their career. They’re looking for split tests, it’s not something that a brand new beginner would typically look for. Whereas Expert Secrets is definitely a brand new beginner. Or the Gold Digger viral video is like, so beginner. So it’s not a perfect science obviously, because different front ends will track different segments of the market, different people, things like that, but it is fascinating just to know that.

What is the bait you’re putting out, what people does it grab, and then how do those people actually stick long term? It’s fascinating, fascinating, fascinating. So anyway, it’s made me think about a lot more of new front end offers. What’s the bait we’re going to create? And really choreographing the offers to get your dream, the best possible customers to raise their hand and walk over to you.

Anyway, it’s huge. I know I’ve done a lot of podcasts on this in the past because it was such a big epiphany for me 5 years ago. When we switched our bait, we switched our customers, which switched everything else.

Anyway, hopefully that helps you guys. I’m thinking through that, simplification of your value ladder, making sure that you’ve got multiple front ends that lead to one middle tier, which typically is webinar, which then leads to one high ticket, which is typically a phone sale or something like that.

And if you’re just starting your business, start with the middle tier with the webinar, and focus all your effort and energy on that until you made at least a million dollars in sales, about that time your webinar landing page and ads and things will start to see ad fatigue and that’s when you start launching new front end offers. You don’t have to go, this is a big misconception with value ladders, that you have to have a front end, then from there you have to go do a webinar, and from there you have to send people up.

And it’s not necessarily the case, in fact, if you look at the selling mechanism at each rung of the value ladder, it is its own value ladder in and of itself. Free plus shipping I don’t have to have a huge value ladder because it’s like, “This is a really good product, pay me $7 or whatever and I’ll give it to you.” Because the barrier is low, the perceived value is going to be a bit high, right.

On a webinar someone’s spending 90 minutes with me on a webinar. That 90 minutes I am taking them through a value ladder, or I’m giving them tons of value in that thing. So because of that, I can go directly to a webinar and have success even if it’s a cold prospect, because I have that 90 minute window to spend with them, that’s warming them up, that’s descending them up through the value ladder.

Same thing if I get on the phone with somebody, I can on the phone build a lot of value in a shorter period of time. It’s harder to go directly to high ticket sales, but you definitely can do it. We’ve done it, we’ve seen a lot of other people do it. So that’s what I kind of want to….I love Dotcom Secrets book, but my one thing that people always gets stuck on, they hear the concept of the value ladder and they’re like, “cool.” And then they come back and be like, “Russell, here’s my value ladder.” And they have like 80 different rungs in this value ladder, just really complicating and complex. And then they’re trying to create all of them before they launch any of them and I’m like, “No, pick the one that’s going to be the best to begin with.”

I still think a webinar funnel is the best for almost every business you can think of, not every business, but almost every business a webinar is the best. What you sell it for, the profits are bigger, so it’s easier, you can make more mistakes and still have success because what you’re selling is more expensive, so it’s more forgiving.

So most people should start there and then focus. Just do that webinar until you make at least a million dollars, and then downgrade to different front ends when it starts hitting fatigue and then what happens, if someone buys the front end, and then you send them up through on a thank you page for your front end offer. We have what you call a thank you page webinar, which I haven’t taught about this yet. We’re testing it right now, the first one is actually going live today. But I will definitely talk about it at Funnel Hacking Live.

So it sends to a thank you page webinar, it sends to the next rung in the value ladder and moves through like that.

So anyway, so much cool stuff. I wish we could spend hours and days together, and we will at Funnel Hacking Live. So if you’re there please come, we’ll hang out and we’ll geek out on this stuff together. But hopefully this gives you guys some insight on value ladder. Again, it has been, become our major focus since this last group of Inner Circle meetings. And it will continue to be throughout this year. Simplification and mastery of the value ladder. That is the goal.

Alright guys, love you all, appreciate you. Thanks so much for everything and we’ll talk to you all soon. Bye


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