In this episode of the Marketing Secrets podcast, I’m thrilled to have my friend James Malinchak in the office. We both lived in the Dan Kennedy speaking world but from very different paths.

Listen as James Malinchak shares…

These are the key lessons to help you leverage every opportunity that comes across your path from one of the best speakers and marketers I know - James Malinchak!

I was standing there getting just mad at the audience, what's wrong with them? And then I had this revelation that a mentor taught me when I was a young kid. He said, in every situation, you can be bitter or better, you can't be both. Which one are you going to choose?

James Malinchak:
I have on a corkboard, I have a thumbtack, and the thumbtack is holding up a bag of Top Ramen noodles, an empty bag, because when I don't want to make a call or I don't want to get on a plane flying to Boise or do something like that, I always look at that Top Ramen noodles bag and I say, you know, you could go back. It could go back. Even though I know that I'm theoretically not, but that's my motivation.

It's like Michael Jordan when he was playing ball. I remember him saying this one time to a small group when we were doing the thing in Vegas. So how did you just dominate all the time? He said, because my high school basketball coach cut me. So every time I took the floor, the coach that I was playing against was my high school coach, and whoever was guarding me was my high school coach. And I never forget that, and he said that's how I became a killer and just destroyed people.

And so I was like, dang, that's me, man. Top Ramen noodles is my thing.

Russell Brunson:
In the last decade, I went from being a start-up entrepreneur to selling over a billion dollars in my own products and services online. This show is going to show you how to start, grow, and scale a business online. My name is Russell Brunson and welcome to the Marketing Secrets podcast.

What's up everybody? This is Russell. Welcome back to the Marketing Secrets podcast. Today I've got a really cool friend and guest who is in the office here in Boise today. He's someone who 13 years ago was on the TV show The Secret Millionaire. I had a chance to go watch the airing with him and a bunch of my friends at his house. We're going to talk about that during this episode. We're talking about how he turned that into tens of millions of dollars in revenue, because a lot of people get media and they don't really know what to do with it. He's walks you through the exact strategy, what he did, why he did, how you guys can model it when you get any kind of exposure.

He also is one of the best speakers I've ever met, and he talked about the two different sides of the speaking industry. One that I've never been part of, which is getting paid to speak. This is where he got his start. He's going to teach any of you guys who have a message like how to actually take that and get paid to speak, going to speak at universities and speaking to kids and things like that, which is really fascinating. And then after that, we transition to how he transitioned to speaking to sell.

And then he talked about one of the things he's doing, which I'm going to figure out how to model in my business, to take his $2,000 offer sale and get it to the spot where, it's 70, was it 71.6% of those people show up at his house and ended up buying his high-ticket program. And so if you are speaking, you want to speak or you have any kind of media coming up, you're going to love this interview with my friend James Malinchak.

What's up everybody? I'm here today with one of my friends, the Secret Millionaire we may call him, and a bunch of other names. His name's James Malinchak. And James is someone who I've known of you for I don't know how long, almost 20 years now probably.

James:
Yeah, back in the day on Kennedy Mastermind.

Russell:
Back in the Kennedy days. And then I knew you were a great speaker, I had a chance to watch you speak Armand's event and close the entire room, and then you brought them all to your house, which we're going to talk about that a little bit.

But I want to start, actually, actually let's start with Secret Millionaire, because that's kind of one of those big media things that was interesting. If you guys remember the TV show, the Secret Millionaire, James was on it, and then I had a to go to your house, watch the viewing. And the whole party and talk about that, what it was first off? Because the show hasn't been on for a couple of years, right?

James:
It's been like 13, 14 years. And actually, I brought something to start off to surprise you. You have never seen these. That's you at my house.

Russell:
Oh, what?

James:
With Robin Lee.

Russell:
With Robin Lee's Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous. Here we go. Is he still alive, by the way?

James:
No, he passed away a couple of years ago.

Russell:
This is worth even more.

James:
There you are, watching the show.

Russell:
There's me and Brent.

James:
And we had the premiere party at my house. Isn't that crazy?

Russell:
That is crazy. Well, there you go.

James:
There we go.

Russell:
Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous. So you're on the TV show and went to the airing, so we got to watch it. What was cool is on that show you helped coach something, what was his name?

James:
Coach Tony.

Russell:
Coach Tony. Coach was there, and so it was a really neat experience. But yeah, talk about that whole experience? How did you even fall into that and what happened with it?

James:
Yeah, you know what's crazy, to this day I still don't know who recommended me for the show, because I didn't try to get on it. Producer sent in an email saying, hey, we got this show coming out where we're going to be showcasing organizations that help in the communities, and we want to recognize unsung heroes. And I thought, it's a load of BS, right? Because they always hide who they are, they don't tell you it's ABC TV. And so I turned them down for two weeks, because I thought it was like Cousin Joe trying to-

Russell:
They're going to pitch you and sell you afterwards.

James:
Yeah, print up a Vista print card and now he's a producer. But no, I did an interview with them at my house, and I found out they were real, and then they revealed they're ABC. And I'm like, what? Why would you want me?

Russell:
Like the ABC?

James:
Yeah, I'm not a TV dude. I'm just an entrepreneur. And they're like, that's what we're looking for, the average everyday person.

So long story short, they came and filmed at my house, and then they picked me up, put me on a plane, sent me to Gary, Indiana, which I know anything about Indiana. I thought I was going milk cows, like farms. It was the number two murder capital at that time.

Russell:
Really?

James:
Yeah. And so basically the premise is I lived undercover and I looked for amazing, beautiful people who were changing lives. And no one knew who I was, hence Secret Millionaire. And at the end of my time there, I revealed my identity as I'm about to leave town. And then I had to open up my checkbook and start writing them checks to further their cause, which we wrote over $100,000 worth of checks.

Russell:
Did they tell you how much they want you to donate in that?

James:
No, I had to put $100,000 into escrow. And by the way, people were like, that wasn't his money and all. No, it was my money. I had to put a hundred grand into escrow. We filmed it and it didn't come out for several months later. So if it never picked up and aired, I don't get that money back. It had to be over a hundred grand, but I decided who got it based on my relationship I built with them.

Russell:
So I've never been on a reality TV show. Well, actually I was on The Profit once.

James:
No, I saw you on the Profit. That was awesome. Man, I was cheering.

Russell:
It was different though, because for you, I'm assuming there were a camera crew following you around. Was that weird, trying to act cool with the camera crew following you around? And how did you justify it to the people, yeah, there's a camera crew just here, because-

James:
So ABC masked it under the umbrella they're doing a documentary on organizations that are helping people. They didn't. That's why the camera's with it.

Russell:
So you're like a host or someone.

James:
My whole angle was that I'm going through a change of life and I'm trying to volunteer to help serve and give back. And so my name was James, but they wouldn't give my last name because they didn't want people Googling who were on the show. And so I wouldn't lie, they wanted to give me a fake name, but I said, no, I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to lie to people. So my last name was Robert, because that's my middle name. It wasn't Roberts, it was James Robert. When I introduced, I said James Robert, because I wasn't going to lie to people. So I was living under James Robert, which was really me, right?

And yeah, I had to look for amazing folks who were serving and giving back and then reward them at the end. But it was crazy, there was 15, two crews, three crews of 15 people at all time. Even when I would sleep, we had security guards, they had cameras everywhere.

Russell:
They're watching you.

James:
Yeah, it was crazy. It was reality, it was different. And then I also saw how crazy it was the setup, wires everywhere. You only see me on TV, but man, there were people everywhere. There was one guy, all he was in charge was my microphone. And so we'd be walking and then he'd say, stop, stop. There's an airplane. I'm like, there's no airplane. And he could hear these airplanes 30,000 feet in the air that would mess up the mic on the show if we kept filming. It was a whole different.

And the other thing too is, one time we're walking down an alley and I had to walk 15 times. Step over the puddle with your left foot, step over the puddle with your. I'm like, this is too much work, man. I'm going to go back to speaking.

Russell:
That's crazy. Do you still keep in touch with some of the people from the show or you actually worked with and?

James:
Oh, yeah. I actually went back, this might be the first time publicly I'm revealing this, that I went back to Gary with no cameras or anything to check on everybody months later to see how they were and to just hang out with him for a couple of days. And then coach Tony, who you mentioned earlier, I flew him and his wife out to Las Vegas, gave him a second honeymoon because they hadn't had a vacation in 20 years. And then I had a surprise for them, I said, you're going to stay at my house and then I'm going to set you up at the Mirage for a couple of days down in Vegas.

And so I took him down and checked him into the room and I said, let's just go walk around. And so we're walking around and Tony is a basketball guy, he starts looking, he sees all these big posters of Michael Jordan hanging. He's like, huh, that must be something going on, promoting sports or something. I said, well, let's just go check it out. Let's just go wander. And he didn't know I already had this set up. So I was doing an event with Michael Jordan for four days in Vegas that I had done for a couple of years, and I had it set up where he and his wife were going to go with me, and I had him meet Michael and sit next to Michael at these, and he was just beside himself. So yeah, he's still my friend to this day.

Russell:
I want to meet Michael Jordan. That'd be amazing.

James:
It was pretty cool. You're in the presence of greatness.

Russell:
Yeah, that's so cool. Okay, so as cool as a story that is, we're marketers and business people here. I know that most people are on that show or any show, they just do the show and that's kind of it, where you were very strategic on, okay, how are we going to turn this into, like this attention, this exposure into actually money into a business? I'd love to know kind of what you did. And I saw some in your home because I was watching you execute on it, but I'd love to know your strategy, how you took that media and turned it into a lot of money at the backside of it.

James:
So the first thing I did when I signed the contract for the show, well first I had a good lawyer, always got to get a good lawyer for anything. And so I had a good lawyer, we signed a deal. And I sat in my conference room, I have one like you have here, not this big. This thing's huge. And I took a bunch of flip chart papers and on three walls I put B, I put D, and I put A. And I strategized for a couple of weeks, what am I going to do before the show to leverage it and bring me a whole bunch of leads and turn it into profit? What am I going to do during it while it's running? What am I going to do after?

And so I started strategizing. So one of the things that I did while we were filming was I started to plant seeds. I hired Bill Rancic who won season 1 of the Apprentice, and I had him come to my event to speak, and I didn't care what he spoke about. It was for the hour and a half dinner before he spoke, so I could ask him one question. I said, Bill, if you were going on a reality TV show again, knowing what you know now, what would you do differently to leverage it and bring you a whole bunch of leads and money? The business aspect of it. And he gave me the idea that if you could speak in sound bites to where they can cut things and use it in the promos, I mean, you could get millions of dollars of free publicity.

So when I was writing out my bio before we actually started filming, I wrote my entire bio, you talk about an origin story, right? I've heard you talk about that forever. I wrote my before, my during and my after of my story in bullet points. And this is the way I teach people to tell their stories, do it in bullet points because it forces you to stop at the end. So when I said I grew up in a very tiny steel mill town outside of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, population of about 6,000 people. See, that's a bullet, so I have to stop, which means they can cut it very easily.

So I did about 30 of those before, I did about 30 after. And I wrote 30 after thinking, if someone listening or watching heard this, could they come find me and get into my funnel? Well, so one of the lines I wrote, I literally scripted it out, I'm one of the highest paid most in-demand motivational speakers in America. Russell, they took the line-

Russell:
From your bio.

James:
... and it ran, ready for this, this was crazy, 200 times a day for about three and a half months leading up to the launch of the show to help promote the show. I remember the first night it came out, I was watching a television show, like Monday Night Football or something, all of a sudden about nine o'clock, I was at the Westin at LAX. My phone is sitting on the desk and it just starts going like this, it starts like-

Russell:
Bouncing?

James:
... Yeah, it looked like aliens took it over. What the heck? I seriously thought something's jacked up with my phone. And I had 300 messages, I'm like, what the heck? There's something wrong with my phone. And I started looking at the texts, dude, I just saw you on ABC. I just saw a trailer. I was watching Monday Night Football, you came up. And I'm like, what? They forgot to tell me ABC that was coming out? And the line they picked and the clip they used of me speaking, I'm one of the highest paid most in-demand motivational speakers in America. I literally got $20 some million of free publicity.
But that's not all. Here's how I turned it into money.

Russell:
By the way, I hope you guys are listening to that, because this is something like I got media trained way back, man 20 years ago, and it was about learn how to speak in soundbites, because the same thing, like news or clips or media are going to pull his pieces out. And most people just wing it and it's like, no, you got to have the beats.

James:
Well, imagine doing that 30 times when you talk about, and why is your story a before and an after, right? Because that's how you can covertly subconsciously start connecting with people. Oh wow, look where she was before, he was before. Look where they are now, I want to be there.

But that's not all, so now you hear that and you're watching it and you go, who is this dude? I'd never even heard of him before. I thought Tony Robbins was the highest paid. So you go and start Googling. Well, I had all these opt-in pages coming up. I hired all these companies to have opt-in pages. So you would opt in and I would pop up on a video and say, hey, this is James Malinchak featured on the new hit ABC TV TV show, Secret Millionaire. If you'd like to learn how I built my business to where ABC invited me to be on the show, and maybe you can use these strategies to build your business, put your name and email in here and I have some free training for you. And we added almost 350,000 people to our opt-in just by doing that, just by strategically doing it, right?

And people say, well, what's the big deal? Well, let's take 300,000. You have 300,000 people that opt-in and all of them spend $50 with you, you just made $15 million. What if they spend 100? You made $30 million. And what did it cost you? Strategically planting a seed a line.

Russell:
I'd love to go back to Bill Rancic, you won the apprentice, what did you do? Because he didn't do anything, I don't think, right? No one thinks about to afterwards like, oh, I should have capitalized on that better, versus you were wise enough to think about it ahead of time, which most people don't.

James:
Yeah, so I realized this that I wasn't going to be the next Denzel. People go on reality TV shows thinking this is my big break. No, something you and I learned from Dan Kennedy years ago, TV is just a media. It's just a way to, if you do it strategically, to draw leads. No different than a Sunday newspaper ad, no different than what you're amazing at, traffic online. It's a customer acquisition model. And I figured that out going into it. People say 15 minutes of fame, I said, no, I have 15 minutes of opportunity. I have 15 minutes of opportunity to turn this into business and leads that could last a lifetime.

It's crazy, we still have people who opted in way back then who are still on our list.

Russell:
Still buying today.

James:
Still buying. Yeah.

Russell:
So cool.

James:
So you got to look at media as a way to, this is a way to draw leads back to your business, whatever it is. Whether you own a coffee shop, whether you're a speaker, whether you're a coach, whatever it is.

Russell:
I'm curious, another part, because I was here for this, again, this is picture number two here, but we were at your house and there's a campaign. Because I remember it wasn't just like, you got options, yes, but it's like you had a campaign and an offer. Because I remember part of me coming to your house was like, hey, if you come to my house, you want to promote this thing and throw a bonus in. And what was that part of it where you actually start collecting cash during the show?

James:
Yeah. So I thought, how can we number one, blow this up in a big way, right? And number two, well, you talk about affiliates, it's one of your fortes, talk about the Dream 100. Well, I was doing this back in the Secret Millionaire day where I was like, if I could get top influencers to promote it to their list, then this just helps us get the word out even more.

And the reason why I really wanted to do this is I went to ABC and I had a meeting with them and I said, how would you like to have 10 million emails going out, or more, to help promote the show? Would that help you get more promotion? And I knew that would help them tremendously, because that would allow them to get renewed. It would allow the show to get renewed and for an option for a second season, a third season. So I was thinking like, don't walk through life like this, and that's how most people walk through life. They wear a bib and they walk through life being a taker, right? Like, oh, what can I get from this person? Let me slam them with this business card, or I need to go with that person because they can help me.

And what I always teach is you take that off from around your neck and you walk through life wearing the napkin, I call it the power of the napkin. And you look at everybody you meet, how can I serve them? How can I help them? It goes back to one of my favorite quotes, Zig Ziglar, "You can get anything you want out of life, you help people get what they want."

So I went to ABC, I thought, what could I do for ABC to help them that would help them accomplish their goals, but then put me in great connection with them? And I thought, well, they want viewers. I just kept peeling the banana. How do I help them get viewers? How do I serve them? And so I came up with this idea, what if I did a product launch and what if I could get a whole bunch of affiliates that would help promote it out? That would be the fastest way to get the word out about the show, which would get a lot of people watching, which would drive viewers, which puts me in a position to go to ABC to talk to them about a spinoff show, which I had called, this is way before the Profit, Secret Millionaire Mentor, where I would literally mentor businesses and fund their business. This is crazy, the Profit came out all those years later.

But that was the goal, if I could serve them. And then I thought, well, how could I serve these affiliates? Why would Russell Brunson want to cancel everything, get on an airplane and come to some kind of party? And I'm like, well, what if I hold it at my house? And I thought, I just kept asking the question, how could I serve? What if I got a celebrity? So I started thinking about athletes that I knew and I'm like, eh, would somebody fly across country for this?

Then I thought, well, wait a minute. If you're going to have a party, you got to get the most famous host on the planet. And that's when I went out-

Russell:
Robin Leach.

James:
... Robin Leach, I've known in Vegas for a while, and I said, you got to get Robin Leach. And so I called Robin, robin was able to do it. So now I'm like, well, okay, but would somebody fly across country for Robin Leach? No. What would make them come? What if I broadcast it live through the internet and people could watch live? And I started thinking, what if-

Russell:
13 years ago, that was a big whoa.

James:
Oh, that was huge. Yeah. Matter of fact, what else I didn't know is you have to get a commercial license to do that from your house.

Russell:
Oh, really?

James:
Oh yeah, I got banned from the cable company. I mean, you saw, we had cameras. I mean, you can't just blast business like that through your local internet. You got to get a license for that. I had no idea.

So I just kept thinking, how can I just add amazing experience and service? And I thought, what if I tell all the affiliates, if you come to my party at my house, we're going to watch the show. And then every break I'm going to talk about what I saw in the previous scene or what I thought in the previous scene. And during and after, we'll put you on the red carpet and we will allow you to promote your information and your website, your opt-in, to everybody who watches. So I'll make it like everybody collects opt-ins. And obviously everybody had to opt in to watch the party, but you guys are able to promote your opt-ins.

As soon as I said that, people were just calling like crazy, because they saw it as a way to help build their business. It wasn't about just me with getting a bunch of opt-ins. It was like, you can be on the red carpet, you'll get pictures with Robin Leach. If you want the video, we'll give you the video, and you can drop your opt-in and you could build opt-ins from it. So that's how we did it.

Russell:
So cool. Man, I could ask you a million other questions, but other things I want to talk to you as well that I think will be super helpful for people. Because obviously speaking of the world I grew up in was very much, I learned from Dan Kennedy and Armand Moore and these guys, where it's like we speak to sell, right? That's how we do it. John Childers, remember the first time I heard a public speaking coach and it was my first event I ever went to, and I remember he was like, there's two ways to get paid as a speaker. One is be famous, or number two is learn how to speak to sell, and the whole thing.

And you started speaking different than me, and I want to talk about that because I think a lot of people who want to become speakers that are looking like, I have to sell something, which is great, I think, by the way, something you should all learn to do in a skill set. But you got started speaking, if I understand, and maybe I'm incorrect, but actually speaking for fees at schools and places like that. Can you talk about how that works, that whole model?

James:
Yeah, this whole space we're in now, I didn't even know it existed. When I first got in, I was like, what is this? Oh, there's a lot of scam artists in this thing. What the heck is this?

Russell:
Why are they selling stuff?

James:
Yeah, manipulating, tricking people. I didn't understand it, but I started as a fee pay. That was my dream. I wrote a little book called, this is funny, titles of a book are important, my book was called Teenagers Can Do It. And nobody would book me, I couldn't figure out why. Well, I'm teaching them how to do it, right?

Russell:
Come on, you guys. Don't you want to learn how to do it?

James:
Later on, I understood titles and I changed it to Teenagers Tips for Success. Would you rather me teach your kids success or how to do it? So I didn't understand any of that, but I wanted to just help kids and serve kids. And then one of my best-

Russell:
How old were you at the time? When was this?

James:
Oh man, this is like 22, 23. Yeah, so five years ago.

Russell:
Yeah, really recently.

James:
But one of my best friends is Joe Theismann, who's former NFL quarterback. And I saw Joe speak in 1995 in Palm Springs. He did a 45 minute talk, and we went to lunch after, and I said, Joe, did you get paid to be out here? And he goes, yeah. And I said, what'd they pay you, like $50 or something? Because I had no idea. He didn't know if I was naive or joking, he quickly figured out I didn't know what I was doing. So he said, no, they paid me $10,000. Now this is 1995, Joe's 30 some thousand now.

But I remember, Russell, I was like, what? I about fell off my chair, I'm like, they paid you $10,000 to do what? And he said to do a talk and take some photos after. I'm like, huh? I just couldn't fathom it, because at the time I was so broke, I was working in a video store making seven bucks an hour.

Russell:
$10,000 is a year's worth of work.

James:
Oh man, it was life-changing money for me, but it was so far from my reality. And I was like, what? And he started to explain the speaking industry and how he was doing a hundred some of those gigs a year. I'm like, wait, wait, wait, what?

Russell:
100 times 10,000, how do you do what you do? I need to learn this.

James:
I was just in disbelief. And I said, well, look, I don't know how to do this, but I'm going to do this. You don't have to hit me in the head with a two-by-four twice, I catch it the first time. So I started learning from trial and error, nobody taught me, there weren't people around nowadays like me that I taught a lot of people, but I just started figuring it out. And so I got into it speaking for kids to help them go for their dreams.

Russell:
Did you do like the elementary schools or was it churches or how was the?

James:
Man, it was anybody that would give me a check or a free chicken dinner.

Russell:
I'll take it.

James:
Because that was way better than the Top Ramen noodles I was eating at the time. So yeah, so it started with kids, schools, churches, in schools conferences, nonprofits, whatever.

Russell:
Were you marketing to those people? How does that even work?

James:
So when I started, no, it wasn't like the internet like today, right? I would just ask everybody, hey, do you know anybody has a kids group that I can come talk for? And I would talk whether you paid me a dollar, whether you paid me 50. I once drove four hours, spoke for four hours for $50. Drove four hours back in Los Angeles, and I was so happy and excited. I probably spent more on the gas. But I would speak anytime, anywhere, and I just started by asking. I mean now, and we'll go through later, I could tell you how to find gigs like that, but that's how I started, because I just wanted to help kids and I thought I was so cool. I'm a rock star, I'm a speaker and I wrote this book and people actually care what I say and I get to share my story.

Russell:
I think what's cool too is the fact that you're doing that, because I think a lot of people want to skip the, you have to get good phase. You doing that, you're out there cutting your teeth, learning and learning and learning, getting better and better. So you become worthy of, oh, now I want 10,000 or 50,000, 100,000 for a gig. But you got to put in the effort first.

James:
Yeah, absolutely. And I always say, look, planes don't take off when they're completely 100% everything's perfect. They course correct along the way. And that's how we have to do it in business or in speaking. And I always say, it's not about being a good speaker, it's about getting to the people who have events and getting them to pick you. I've seen a lot of speakers that I look at them and I'm like, oh my gosh, that guy, oh, he's not saying anything new. And then I have to catch myself, and I'm like, yeah, but he's up there getting paid and I'm not. He's doing something right. I should take that guy to lunch and figure out what he's doing.

So I started there. Then I started learning speaking, I went to the college, university market. And once I figured out, the key was you got to get to the people, even today, whether it's fee paid or speak and sell, you got to get to the people that run events and get them to pick you or you're broke as a speaker. And so I wasn't a great speaker, I just became a master at getting people. When I figured that out, that was the 8 ball. If we're shooting a game of pool the goals to knock the 8 ball in, the 8 ball of speaking is get coordinators.

So I used to use an app. I don't know if you know, I created an app back in the day. Yeah, it's called AIC, it's called Ass In Chair. And I just sat my in a chair and I looked for coordinators. That's all I did for hours a day. And I built spreadsheets, spreadsheets. And so it got to a point where it became actually pretty simple, I had 10,000 coordinators on a spreadsheet.

Russell:
A coordinator is someone who runs an event.

James:
Yeah, they're the people that book and paychecks for people to speak. If I mail 10,000 brochures, that cost me one stamp. Old Dan Kennedy direct marketing. By the way, it still works today. Still works today because nobody gets mail anymore, so you're the only one that shows up. As long as it's going to the right person with the right messaging, 10,000 on a list, if I mail 10,000 of them, 10%, my 10, 10, 10 philosophy, 10% will be interested. That's 1000 and 10% will book you, that's 100. Well, if your fee's let's just say 10,000, you just made a million bucks and what did it cost you? About 10 grand.

And so that's how I got going. And so I used to run this business seven figure business, just me, no assistance, with something called ACT, remember the old database, ACT? And I used to print out my labels and I used to watch Blockbuster videos all weekend and I'd stick labels. I didn't even know they made stamps that already were sticky. And I would do that, but every time I'd drop a sure in the mail, I would think 10,000 bucks, 8,000 bucks, 5,000 bucks, 3,000 bucks. So that's how I got started. And very blessed that over the years I ended up becoming two-time National College Speaker of the Year. And it wasn't because I was a great speaker, it's because I was doing so many more talks than everybody else, I had more votes.

And then I went into the corporate market because they pay you much higher fees. I still do fee paid speaking to this day, as long as it hits my fee. I'm not going to turn down. It's like, wow, you get to speak for an hour and they're going to pay you 40 grand, 50 grand, whatever, 10 grand? Come on, man, I used to eat Top Ramen noodles.

I want to tell one last thing. In my office, I have to this day, have had it for years, I have on cork board, I have a thumbtack to the cork board, and the thumbtack is holding up a bag of Top Ramen noodles, an empty bag. Because when I don't want to make a call or I don't want to get on a plane flying a Boise or do something like that, I always look at that Top Ramen noodles bag and I say, you know, you could go back. It could go back. Even though I know that I'm theoretically not, but that's my motivation.

It's like Michael Jordan when he was playing ball, I remember him saying this one time to a small group when we were doing the thing in Vegas. I said, how did you just dominate all the time? He said, because my high school basketball coach cut me. So every time I took the floor, the coach that I was playing against was my high school coach, and whoever was guarding me was my high school coach. And I never forget that. And he said, that's how I became a killer and just destroyed people. And so I was like, dang, that's me, man. Top Ramen noodles is my thing.

Russell:
Yeah, so cool.

James:
So that's how I got into the fee paid speaking.

Russell:
That's cool. Last year Funnel Hacking LIVE, one of my friends, Ben Kjar, spoke and probably the best speaker we had, he was amazing. But he's not from our world, so he's doing this, he's getting paid, I don't know, 10 to 30 grand per speech and he's doing 50 of him a year traveling place to place to place. But because he's gotten so good at speaking, I was like, dude, if you just learn how to close at the end, this goes to millions of dollars a year. And he will figure it out, he's an amazing kid. But he went that same path.

I think in our entrepreneurial world, people, they're like, I'm going to start a webinar. They don't understand that it's such a cool path. I didn't go that path, but I had to cut my teeth the same way. Back when I was learning how to speak, I was going to all those events that, pre-2008 people doing all these little events. It was funny, I don't know, you probably didn't get invited to these ones, but I get invited to these events, there's going to be 500 people and I show up, there's like 12 people and a half are speakers. And I'm like-

James:
Yeah, I've been there.

Russell:
... okay, we're in trouble. And I was sitting in this room, I'm like, only one of us is going to get paid this trip, because we had to pay our own flights, hotels. We had to out close the other people so we get paid that week, otherwise I'm flying home with my wife. Yeah, I didn't make anything. It was all like, you eat what you kill, which is a fun mentality, and we learned how to close on our speak.

I'm curious, when did you make the transition from the speak, getting paid to speak, to actually selling? Because you're also one of the best platform closure I've ever seen. It's like you're a great speaker, but then you add this into it, when did you make that transition and not think this is a scam, but like, oh, this is actually a cool business model. How do we do this?

James:
So my first seminar was in the year of 2000 when I started teaching speaking. And how it happened was people started to find out, they used to call me that college speaking guy. Well, you want to talk about a good marketing thing, you got to listen to your prospect. And I always say, you have to speak prospect. So I kept hearing people say, oh, you're that college speaking guy.

Russell:
You're that funnel guy. Or that potato gun guy.

James:
Yeah. So I started to brand myself, James Malinchak, yes, that college speaking guy. That was my tagline. And so I sort of cornered how to get booked and paid to speak in the college and university market, and people started asking me, hey, would you teach me how to do this? Well, at the time, I was making 100 grand a month doing fee paid speaking. And people thought, they would say, oh, you speak to kids? I'm so sorry. Yeah, yeah, so sorry. Here, here's a nickel to go buy some food. And they didn't know that I was actually crushing it, and that there's budgets in the college and university market and they get this money all the time, because kids go to school and they pay activities fees, and there's state and federal funding, and there's all these different funding sources.

Russell:
There's money they have to spend on speakers.

James:
There's money they have to spend, exactly. So I just figured it out, that's why I was pretty good at it. And so people started asking me to teach them, like how do you do this and how do you do that? And so we go back to Dan Kennedy, I did a consulting with Dan at a National Speakers Association conference. And Dan, what was funny is I got this fax. Remember the fax days?

Russell:
Still faxes me.

James:
Does he really?

Russell:
Yep. We still have a fax machine because of him.

James:
You have to have a fax machine just for Dan.

Russell:
Yep, I do. Me and him are the only two left.

James:
Isn't that crazy? But I got a fax, somehow he figured out I was going to be at the National Speakers Association conference, and I got a fax, hey, this is Dan Kennedy. You're coming to, I think it was in Dallas, and it starts on a Friday. I'm going to do a Mastermind the day before in my suite, and if you want to sit in on it and then everybody will get 15 minutes, then it's like 1,000 bucks. I'm like, who is this dude? This dude's nuts. 1,000 bucks to sit in his suite? This guy is crazy. Russell, I kid you not. I said, all right, I'm going to do it.

Russell:
Just to see how crazy this guy actually is.

James:
And then I'll ask for the refund that he says you can get, because this guys is full of crap. I'm like, I didn't even know who Dan was, right?

So I went to that thing and there was 12 of us, and I'm going, this dude's making 12 grand for four hours, that's pretty good. And I'm like, I'm getting a refund because this guy's full of crap. I mean, the first time he started talking, I was like, oh. And Dan was the one that told me on my little 15 minute hot seat that, hey, you ought to package this up and sell it to people and teach them how to do it. I was like, what? What do you mean, like in a seminar? Yeah. And I had no idea what he was talking, because I was a fee paid speaker.

Russell:
Yeah, that was the world you knew.

James:
So I could remember, and he told me about writing a sales letter and here's my ultimate sales letter book and all that stuff. And I was like, what, sales letter, what the heck is that? So I remember I didn't do anything for six months, and then I said, you know what? I'm going to prove this guy. By the way, I did not ask for my refund, because everything he said made sense. I just never heard that before. And I was like, my jaw dropped, like wow, this is a whole way different way of thinking.

So about six months later, I'm at Bucknell University in Lewisburg, Pennsylvania. I had a whole day and my goal was to go play basketball in the gym. And I thought, you know what? Maybe I ought to sit down and try the sales letter thing that Kennedy dude talked about. So I went to the Bucknell University computer lab. I sat there, opened up his book, and I tried to write a sales letter for the College Speaking Success boot camp that I was going to do. And I did, and I put it into a brochure and I mailed it out, because I didn't even take credit cards back then. You used to have to mail me a check. It was 1,000 bucks to attend. And I was like, I can't charge 1,000 bucks.

He said, well, if they learn from you, can they make $1,000 speaking? I'm like, yeah, they make a lot more. He said, well charge 1,000 bucks and guarantee that they'll make the money back with the first booking. I said, okay. And I said, I'm going to do it, but no one's going to do this. So I'm not kidding, my first seminar I did in 2000, I marketed it just to prove Dan wrong so I can go back and say, look, you don't know what you're talking about.

Russell:
You're wrong.

James:
Yeah, you're wrong. I had 12 people send me checks. To me, that was huge. I was like, what? I just made 12, I didn't even know what to talk about.

Russell:
So what do you guys want to learn about it?

James:
I didn't have a seminar. So I literally wore shorts and a T-shirt, and I just taught them everything I did for the college and university market. They loved it. And people started signing up for another little 12 person. I did these 12 person ones, and I'm like, this is great. I'm making 12 grand on a Saturday, this is cool.

And so that started to pick up, and then all of a sudden, here's how I got into selling. I got a phone call out of the blue, it was Mark Victor Hansen, co-creator of Chicken Soup for the Soul. And he said, hey, I got this thing called Speaking Empire. I heard you're the college speaking guy. I said, yeah, that's true. He said, we want you to come and speak at my event. We're going to have like 500 folks and can you teach the college market? I said, yeah, here's my fee. And there was this pause and he goes, well, we don't pay fees. I'm like, huh?

And he said, no, you come, you speak, you talk, and then you offer them continuing education after. And I'm like, oh, what? I don't do that. And he said, well, you have a little seminar, right? I said, yeah. I said, could I sell that? And he goes, yeah. I said, it's $1,000 bucks. He goes, yeah, that's fine. That's what they can buy after. I said, okay, cool. I said, well, you're going to have 500 people? And he goes, yes. And Russell, I went like this, oh my gosh, I can't believe, 500 people about to give $1,000.

Russell:
100% closing rate.

James:
I didn't know this world, right? And so he goes, yeah, so you offer it at the end. And then, oh, by the way, I get half of what they buy. I'm like, huh? Half? Well, he explained the promoter thing. I pay for the lights, I pay for the stage, the marketing. And I thought, okay, 250,000, still amazing, right?

Russell:
Way better that my speaker fee.

James:
Yeah, exactly. I said, I'll try it. I go down, I do the talk. Childress was there, by the way. I did my offer at the end, which I didn't know what I was, I wasn't making an offer. I was talking. And I saw a couple other people say, now meet me at the back table. So I said, now meet me at the back table. And I went to the back and I turned, there's this long line following me. I'm like, oh my God, this is amazing. People were coming up to me, they're hugging me, crying. That was the best talk I've seen. Great, you coming to my training? No, I'm going to go to John Childress. What? Somebody else, hey, I took 12 pages of notes. Awesome. You going to come to my training so I can really help you? No, I'm going to go to Dan Kennedy. Huh?
One after another, 70, 80 people. Zero bought. Zero. I don't know what percentage that is, but that ain't good.

Russell:
I made nothing from this trip.

James:
I know. Russell, I was standing there getting just mad at the audience, what's wrong with them? And then I had this revelation that a mentor taught me when I was a young kid. He said, in every situation, you can be bitter or better, you can't be both. Which one are you going to choose?

So my revelation was, oh, maybe 500 people aren't wrong. Maybe it's me, because look at that line for Childress and look at that line for Dan Kennedy. And I got a long line too, but they're actually enrolling with them. No one enrolled with me. So I enrolled in all those programs, and I went to Childress's first training way back 20 years ago. And I remember he talked for the first 30 minutes and I realized, this was my big aha moment, oh, I speak, but I don't know how to speak. I'm speaking, but I don't know how to speak.

And so that was my first entry into Speak and Sell, and then I just became a hound dog. And I remember I went about two years with nobody buying, two and a half years, I couldn't understand what. And then one day it clicked, I was speaking for Adam Urbanski. I don't know if you remember Adam? He gave me a shot. He had a small group in Newport Beach, and I did 32,000 in sales and I was beside myself. I was like, okay, I don't know what I just did, but I think I figured it out.

Russell:
How do I replicate that?

James:
Yeah.

Russell:
Do that again.

James:
I got the video, watched it, study it, did the same thing, and then went to 50. And then about three or four months later, I did over 100,000. This is just crazy for me. I'm like, did 100 grand, and then 200, 350, a million. I was like, whoa, this is crazy. That's how I got into speak and offer.

And so yeah, I didn't know anything about it, if I was scummy when I got into it, and then I realized, oh, I get it now. I always teach, there's two sides of speaking. You got fee paid over here and you got speak and offer over here. Fee paid, anybody can get paid. Speak and offer is like public events., Unless you're a celebrity or a Shamu, you're probably not getting paid. So you're going to have to speak and offer. And as long as you have something that's going to serve them, help them change their life, transform them, you're doing a disservice by not offering your great stuff to them. And now I have no problem doing it.

Russell:
Yeah, that's what I find, it's like in a 90-minute presentation, you have the ability to give them the strategy, but for you to tactically implement that with them, it takes something extra. And that's the best of the ones who know how to take that, like here's the strategy plan, come with me now. We're going to help you tactically implement it. And it's fun.

James:
Oh, and you're amazing. You're amazing, I love watching you. Even when you were at my event years ago speaking, I was like, God, darn. I got to train myself to talk fast.

Russell:
I figure I talk so fast, people can't understand that every other word, I don't know what he's saying, but I should buy this so I can go watch the replays, because I'm so confused. I'm like, slow down, Russell, slow down.

James:
No, you're amazing. You're great.

Russell:
Well, thank you. Okay, so I have a question for you, this is a selfish question now. So the first time I saw you speak to sell was Armand's event. And a couple of things, number one is I remember he introduced you and then you came in from the back of the room. I think you were walking on the table, I can't even remember. Huge patterning up, we're just like, what just happened? And then I watched you do your presentation, and when you did your close, and I think I spoke after and I commented on it, because your stack was insane. What you offer is amazing, and you went all the way down to the point where you had everyone come to your house and hang out with you. And the offer was like two grand or something, and I was just like, you're letting people come to your house for $2,000? My wife wouldn't let me bring people to my house for a million dollars.

So I want to talk about just how you create your offer, but then specifically the house part, because I have in my head an idea for myself, but I want to understand it for me so I can model it for what I'm doing?

James:
So when I started watching everyone, everyone was doing the same kind of offer, buy my course, buy my course, buy my course. So I started, I don't know, probably before that Armand event, eight, nine years earlier, maybe 10, somewhere in there, I said, how do I make myself different? How do I make it unique and different so that if they buy Russell's awesome course and program and they buy someone else's, they go, oh, I need James's too, not which one should I take? So that was the first thought process. I want them to take mine also versus a choice.

And so in order to do that, I had to make it different. So I started thinking, well, how do I make this different? And then I started thinking, well, none of them give them an experience. So how can I give them an experience? And I thought, well, literally when I started said, what if I build a house and my offer includes come to my house as the cherry on top of the sundae, like the big crescendo. You get to come to my house, basically the way I do offers is I put different modalities of learning. So you have the modality of self-education online. You have the modality of an intensive, come to my boot camp. And then you have a small intimate modality of come to my house.

So I have three modalities of learning. So when someone looks at my offer, they go, oh, I like to self-study with courses. I like to stop, write things down. So I got that modality in there. Where someone else in the audience might go, oh, I'm going to this dude's house, because I like to learn in small, little intensive. And then there's others who say, no, I'm a seminar type person.

So that's the first thing, I want different modalities of learning in my offer to appeal to everybody in the audience, but I also want a modality to be different with an experience and that's how I came up with the house thing. And so I could also use that to position against everybody else.

Russell:
Yeah. Because again, was the offer 2000? What was the price point?

James:
Yeah, 1997. So basically I make it very simple and brain dead. My seminar ticket was 2000 bucks, but you got two of those. So you got the price back just in one seminar ticket. So now you get two seminar tickets, you got-

Russell:
They can resell that. Is that what the-

James:
No, they bring a guest. And you know why you have them bring a guest, most of them are bringing a spouse, so you got both buying decision makers in the audience when you offer your upsell. Or they bring a business partner, or they brought somebody who never heard of you before, but now that person's joining your upsell, your coaching, your Mastermind. So that's why I always gave away two tickets.

And so basically I threw in my house to make it completely different. And I wrote this script, because you're big on scripting and I'm big on scripting. I don't say things. Actor Sidney Poitier said it best, "The art is hiding the art." And so it looks like we're just up there rambling, but it's scripted out. I've heard you so many times, you're a master at it. I know when you're going to last.

Russell:
So do I. Kennedy told me the first time, I know when to take my drink of water, I know when I'm laughing, I know, yeah.

James:
Yeah. It amazes me, people talk and make offers and they don't script it out. No, I'm just a free flowing. I'm like, you're going to free flow right into debt. What are you talking about?

So one of the lines I wrote was, when I offer the house, here's one of the scripts I wrote, there is nobody at my level that you'll ever meet at an event that will treat you like a human being and invite you to come to their house. They all want to stick, and then I alienate everybody else, they want to stick you in some stuffy hotel room because they don't really care about you. You get to come to my house because we care about you. So there's one of the scripts I wrote, and that was to help sell the differentiation point.

Yeah, that's how I created the whole come to the house. And I got pictures of people playing basketball in my court and putt-putt golfing and their feet in the pool.

Russell:
What percent of people who buy actually end up coming in? Because I mean, at $2,000, you're closing a lot of people, what percentage actually show up?

James:
It depends on where they come from. I always say one of the most important things, let me tell you this. Jack Canfield walked into my event one time and he said, man, I heard, Jack Canfield, Chicken Soup for the Soul, he said, man, I heard you do a couple million bucks in coaching at your event. What's the secret? I said, there's not one secret Jack. There's like 75 things we do leading up to the event. But if I had to give you the magic pill of what I think you're asking for, I said I got the right fish in the pond in the first place. I got a bunch of groupers sitting here. I always say, you can't feed your family on guppies, you can only feed them on grouper. So I got people who already can afford it in the audience because I spoke and drew leads from the right place in the beginning.

So I'm very big on, your close percentage goes up the better quality of a buyer you have. And for me, a better quality of a buyer is somebody who's already in another program at the same price or higher. It's not a brand new person who doesn't understand Masterminding and coaching. So I was very strategic of which events I would speak at, because basically I'm fishing, I'm pulling them from their pond into mine and I don't want guppies, I want grouper, right?

So I'll give you a quick example, then I'll go back to the percentage. If I'm in the right audience, percentage is high. So there was in South Florida life coaching group for three years, it's been trying to get me to speak, 30 minutes down the freeway. And so I always ask questions, well, how much did the people pay to be there? It's like a monthly thing they do. They said nothing. I said, okay, so then they pay yearly membership and this is free, this luncheon you're doing? No, they don't pay yearly. I'm like, okay, so they don't pay to be there and they're not paying a yearly. They're all driving, so they're all local. And so I've turned them down and they can't believe I'll turn them down.

Because I can make an offer and keep 100%, but I don't want to because I don't speak to make a sale, I think I got this from Dan, I speak to make a sale to get a client that buys from me for years. I've got coaching clients that's been with me 15, 16 years because they're the right client. Our longest client came from speaking at a Dan Kennedy event. 16 years later, he's still my client. It's been over seven figures that he's paid me in fees. One person, because he came from the right pond.

So I won't go down the street to the life coaching group, but yet I got on a plane and flew to Edinburgh, Scotland to speak, Brad Sugars with ActionCOACH, great guy, I flew over there to speak at ActionCOACH, why? There's 200 some people going to be there, they all paid 100 grand for ActionCOACH franchise plus royalties back every month. They all flew to Edinburgh, Scotland, so they can afford a back end program. Good pond to go fishing.

So I always start with the pond, I want grouper. So if I got the right grouper in the pond, that 2,000 offer is very high, like a percentage, closing percentage. And then when they come to the house, the more serious people, the grouper, show up. The guppies who aren't serious about business don't show up. So I want the right entrepreneur that I'm speaking in front of in the first place, because that's a better show-up rate to the house and to the event.

Russell:
Interesting. How many people can actually come to-

James:
My house?

Russell:
... yeah, how many people can actually show up to an event there?

James:
We fit like 20 to 25 in my conference room. I have a conference room I've built specifically for doing that.

Russell:
And then is this a one-day event, a couple-day event, multi day?

James:
It's crazy, it used to be one, and then I don't know, for some reason I got to be thinking I can serve them and give them more if I do two days. And so I turned it into two days and my percentage of upsell went through the roof. So we averaged, this is crazy, and by the way, this is my funnel. This is something I really picked up from you. When you're a genius, you did something that you made yourself the mountain peak of funnels. I always say when I'm talking to a coaching client, what's your mountain peak? There's a lot of stuff you do, but what's the one peak you get remembered for and you create TOMA, top-of-mind awareness amongst everybody? And you did that with funnels, because every answer to everything, I joke, I talk about Russell.

Russell:
It's true though.

James:
Yeah, Russell's like, everything's a funnel, right? And it's true. You're the one that made me think that way, like, oh my gosh, I'm doing this wrong. Why do I give options on a website? It should be just one thing. I always joke and say, yeah, Russell's a master at this. You want to grow your business? Need a funnel. You want to increase your net? You need a funnel. You got a broken arm? You need a funnel.

Russell:
There's a funnel for that.

James:
So you became that, I wanted to become the guy with speaking. I wanted to be known as the speaker guy. That was my mountain peak. And so I really honed in on, well, I'm going to just stay in my lane and try to own that word. So that when you think of making money as a speaker, you go to James. I don't talk about monetize your message, I don't talk about all that. I said, look, there are better people who will teach you how to craft a story, how to walk on stage, I don't do that. Well, you go to all them and learn, and when you're ready to make money, come to me. And that's been my pitch, one of my scripts, I want to own the mountain peak of speaking. And that's how I've coached athletes and entertainers and people just keep coming because of that.

So my percentage when they come to the house is 71.6%. So you got me started thinking about funnel. So my funnel is first, find the right audience, grouper, right? Entrepreneurs. Secondly, over deliver to do whatever we have to do to get them to the house, move them through the funnel. When they're at the house, I do nothing, and we treat them right, we pick them up in a Mercedes van, we bring them up, we have catered lunch and we take them back in the van, we treat them really well. All they got to do is get to Vegas, and then spend two days of doing nothing but the napkin of serving. Literally, I put my heart into it, I coach them and any question, and I'm completely coaching, serving them. And I'll have people who say, dude, I can't believe I paid 2,000 bucks. When I first signed up at the event, I thought you made a mistake. I thought it was 20 grand. I get to go to your house for two grand plus the courses, plus the seminar? That's crazy.

And that's what I teach you, you create one offer. It's something I coined years ago, DAO, the DAO, the dumb ass offer. Someone looks at your offer, they should go, wasn't planning on getting this, but man, I'd have to be a dumb ass to not take. This is a lot of great stuff. So when they're at my house, that second step is to serve them and just go over board and really fix them and help them, not the fluffy stuff. I don't have an agenda, I just, okay, what's your problem? What's your problem? What's your goal? What do you want to achieve? And it's a small group so I'm really helping everyone.

Russell, by the end of day one, they're asking me, is there a way you can work with me?

Russell:
Yes, there is. Glad you asked.

James:
And then the next day after I serve them for 8 A.M. till one o'clock, and we come back after lunch, literally, I don't even make a hard close or a hard pitch. I just, hey, would it be helpful if you hit, this is a script I wrote, would it be helpful if you had my marketing mind thinking for you, creating for you, working for you, figuring everything out and just handing it to you and telling you what to do? Because There are three things I learned nobody wants to do. They don't want to think, they don't want to create, they don't want to work, because now they got to take responsibility if they mess up.

So I take that responsibility off of them. I'll have my marketing mind thinking for you, creating for you, working for you, figuring everything out and just handing it to you and you just follow the plan. And so they just naturally come to the conclusion, oh my gosh, this dude's served me for two days, I'm moving forward with him.

But you really honed me in on the funnel aspect of it. So it may not-

Russell:
The world’s a funnel.

James:
... it may not be the online funnel that a lot of people think is a funnel. There's different ways to do a funnel, but you're the one that got me and I keep it simple and I've been running that funnel forever. That's why you see social media, I have all these people at my house.

Russell:
Yeah, so cool. I wish we'd go another two hours, but we have another event that you're here in Boise to speak at starting in less than hour, so they're telling me we need to wrap up. This has been awesome, man. I appreciate, the Secret Millionaire stuff was fascinating, learning the other side of the speaking business, and then figuring out how to create an offer like that. Again, it's got the wheels of my head spinning. Right now, there's more people selling courses now than in the history of all time. It's like, how do you make that offer the next level? Come to your office, move them to the next ascension event.

That's the big takeaway for me, hopefully you guys got some really cool things from that as well. But I appreciate you coming. Where's the best place for someone who wants to go find out more about you and see all your stuff?

James:
Oh, it's real simple. Just go to www.bigmoneyspeaker.com, or you find me in social media, primarily Instagram and Facebook.

Russell:
Very cool.

James:
And I just want to say, man, thanks to you, forget the funnels and the marketing, but what I think you've done more for me and for all of us is you show us that you could be really successful in business and be a really good human being. I admire how you talk about your wife, how you talk about your kids, how you talk about helping people. And you taught me to be a better human being just by seeing what you do, and I don't know if many people share that with you. So I say all the time, man, this guy's got this awesome company, it's like billions of dollars or whatever. And it couldn't happen for a better human being and I truly mean that.

So bless you and God bless you for what you're doing.

Russell:
I appreciate that. Thank you.
Thank you James. And I hope you guys enjoyed this episode. If you did, let us know and go check out James on the sites and appreciate you, man.

James:
Appreciate you brother.