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(Q&A) After Your Funnel Is Built... How To Get It To The Next Level?

(Q&A) After Your Funnel Is Built... How To Get It To The Next Level?

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Den Lopez asked how to split test your funnel so it can grow... this episode is my response!

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Traditionally what happens, let's say we build a funnel and we launch, it's doing well, but I want to start testing stuff. The first thing we're going to test is the landing page. I'm not going to do micro things. A lot of times, I see people like, "Oh, we changed the text on the button and increased conversion by blah." Those are little incremental changes and they're great over the long term, but they're not big needle movers. I want a big needle mover.


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Russell Brunson: Hey, hey, what's up everybody? This is Russell Brunson. Welcome back to the Marketing Secrets podcast. I'm doing some more Q&As today, which I'm excited for. Today's question's coming from Den Lopez and Den has a question about, after your funnel's done and launched and live, then what? And not so much specific about how to get traffic, but how do you optimize? How do you test? What's the process? How do we do it? With that said, let me play his question and then we will jump right in.

Den: Hey, Russell. Thank you for this, man. My question is, once you have a funnel that's working okay, I see in your book you say, "Spend money, and then what do you change?" But it's like confusion. Is there a place where you can get help, like, "Listen, you could do this or you can do that," or just, you've got so much support till that point, but once your funnel is built, how do you get to the next level?

Russell: Okay. I think it's a good question and it's something that's, like I would say in this game, there's the art and the science. I can teach the science. The science is like, "Okay, page one, page two, page three. Hook, story, offer. Emotion, logic, fear." There's all these frameworks for the science, right? 'Cause that's what it it, it's frameworks.

The second part is the art. It's like the things we're putting out there. Even within the art though, I try to create frameworks, try to create science within the art. That's what the Expert Secrets book is all about. Okay, the art is you presenting and getting people excited enough to buy. Well, what's the science behind those sciences? Okay, new opportunity, secret, 1, 2, 3, stacking the clothes. Still, even inside that, there's still the art you have to bring on top of it, right? It's the words, it's the lingo, it's the offer, all those kind of things that I can't just give you.

Honestly, I think it's similar with the testing. The testing is like, "Well, what's going to out-convert the other thing?" We don't know. And half the times I guess, I'm wrong, which is frustrating, but we always are testing. And so a couple of different things to think about. I'm going to try to make this as scientific as possible, but also understanding that there's this art where you're just throwing crap against the wall and trying to see what's going to work.

Traditionally what happens, let's say we build a funnel and we launch, it's doing well, but I want to start testing stuff. The first thing we're going to test is the landing page. I'm not going to do micro things. A lot of times, I see people like, "Oh, we changed the text on the button and increased conversion by blah." Those are little incremental changes and they're great over the long term, but they're not big needle movers. I want a big needle mover.

What'll typically happen is the first test is the landing page. I'm doing two radically different versions of the landing page. That's the first thing. Why be one page where there's a headline sales video order button, and second page where there's no headline or there's... Sorry, there's always going to be a headline. There's no video, it's just text. I'm testing video versus text, and that could be a big test. Or maybe one of it is video with a two-step order form on the side. The other one is video with the button underneath. They click on it, the order form pops up, but they're two radically different designs. Because traditionally that's going to have a bigger needle move than just tweaking a headline or just tweaking a thing. I'm doing a radical change first.

And so that's usually the very first thing that I'm testing. After I find from that, "Hey, this one's converting, this one's being the other one three times over," then it's like, now I can start going deeper. That's kind the first initial test. Now, where do I get ideas for these tests? This comes back to funnel hacking. When I create a book funnel, I look at a hundred different book funnels before I create it. I'm looking at how the different structures are. I'm like, "Okay, this person structured this way, someone else did this way. Let's see which one's going to work." I'm testing two different versions against each other.

That's usually the first test. Honestly, you knew we normally set that test up before we start driving traffic initially, 'cause I don't know which one's going to win. That's the first test. We set it up, we launch it, and then that's kind of where this whole game starts, right? Number two. Now we start letting traffic go throughout the funnel, and I start looking back at what's happening. I say, "Okay, how much am I spending on the ads?" 'Cause that's one point that we need to test, different ad creatives, and which ad creatives are going to get the cheapest clicks and actually convert people to highest. We're looking there. We're testing multiple creatives and trying to see which one's going to work.

The landing page, what percent did it convert at? Then we've got the sales page. What percent did it convert at? What upsell one, upsell two, we're going through, and I'm just mapping out the process. Then I start looking at what things am I happy with? If I'm getting a 15% conversion on sales page, that's amazing. I'm not going to touch it. It's probably as close to flawless as I'm going to get. But if I have a 0.5% conversion, I'm like, "Okay, this is not working." Look at this is a pipe and there's a clog in the pipe and nothing's getting through, it's getting stuck there.

I got to figure out, how do I unclog that pipe? And maybe it's not on the sales page, maybe it's on upsell number one or upsell two. Maybe it's like we get an 8% conversion on sales page, which is amazing. Upsell number one, we're getting 22% conversion, which is pretty dang good. Upsell number two, we're getting 1% conversion rate. It's like, "Oh, the pipe is stuck there. That's where I need to look at." I come back and the same thing I'm looking, "Okay, what is it? It's either the hook, the story, or the offer."

I joke about this from stage a lot, but literally, this is what it is. At each step in the process, it's going to be either the hook, the story, or the offer. Even our initial split test, which is two radically different landing pages. After I test that, then what do I do? I come back and I ask the question, "All right, is it the hook, the story, or the offer?" Okay, the hook's not a good. Okay, let's try the split test, two different headlines, right? Okay, this hook increased conversion by 30%. Sweet. I'm starting to unclog that pipe, right?

Then come back here. Now we did the hook. It's the story like, "Oh, the story's good, or is there a better story? Something more intriguing? Do I tell too much? Is it too long? Is it boring? Do I need to have it more of a, what do they call, a blind offer where I don't tell as much? I'm just kind of talking about what it's not as opposed to telling what it is?" These are some of the things I'm thinking about on the story side of it.

And then hook, story, offer. Because the offer get like, "Oh, maybe no one wants this because the product sucks. No one actually wants this thing. Can I change the offer? Can I increase some bonuses?" Those are things I'm looking at, right? But then this is an iterated process. We do it over and over and over again and we're looking at the funnel like, "Okay, are the ads converting? Landing page, upsell one, upsell two, upsell three. Okay, what's working? What's not working? Okay, it's a hook, story, offer. Where is the pipe stuck? Today, let's focus on upsell number one, and keep tweaking that test until its got enough throughput and now it's converting. Cool. Let's the next one. The next one."

That's the game. I've talked about this before. The mantra of, "Give yourself a raise every single day." We used to have that at our old offices above the door. We had, when you're going out to a football field and you're walking out the tunnel and they have the thing above, it's like, I don't know, "We're going to win," and all the football players tap it on the way out.

We have something like that where it's like, "Give yourself a raise every day," and you walk through the door and we all tap that coming through. And that was the mantra. And the mantra is, how do we give ourselves a raise today? And we don't do it by launching a new product, new course or whatever. It's like, how do we tweak this funnel so that based on... We're spending the same amount of money on the ads, but if we get twice as many people into buying, we gave ourself a huge raise today. It's coming back and just iterating on that process. Okay?

That's kind of the testing thing. I would say that, my guess is 90% of marketers never get to that first phase. They launch a funnel, it either works or doesn't. And then if it doesn't, then they move on to the next thing. You know what I mean? And so understanding that, it's like launching it, getting as good as you can, and then picking a piece and iterate. Every day, give yourself a raise, give yourself a raise. But those are the things that we're doing to optimize and get it better.

Again, it's hard because I don't know how you write a book or teach a course on that. It's not so much, here's the path as much as like, "Okay, let's throw something up against the wall. Let's try a purple background versus the white background. Let's try a completely different headline. Let's change the pictures, change the images." Throwing all these different things out there and just try and see which one's going to actually work. It always blows my mind what ends up working.

Man, about 10 years ago, we wrote a book called The 108 Split Test Winners, which we used to sell. I think there's a PDF somewhere. I don't even know. Let me see if I can find it in the next five seconds. Okay, well, if you do, I do know this. If you go to and you go to homepage, first thing is go drop a question down there. It says, "Ask Russell anything," record a question. I'll maybe answer it. But number two, if you go to free reports, I think. Yeah, 108 Split Test Winners. Yeah, if you click on there, it takes you to the link and you can download the book.

It's an old book we put together, but we had 108 split test winners. Just flipping through that book will give you ideas like, "Oh, I could try this. Oh, I could try that." And you see stuff we did in the past that won and things that lost and just will stimulate the ideas in your mind. That's kind of the game plan. That's how it works. I hope that helps, Den, and hopefully for any of you guys who are struggling to try to figure this out, it'll make this game more fun for you. 'Cause it really is a game.

I mean, imagine you come and you tweak something in your funnel and you increase your conversions by 30%. So, give yourself a 30% raise by making a little tweak? Like, come on, you'd have to go to college from there two years to increase your income by 30% in any other profession. Yet here, we get it by testing different headlines or different videos like, come on, it's the best game in the world. Have fun with it, play with it. Hope this helps, and we'll see you guys all again on the next episode. Again, if you have any questions, go to Post your question. Maybe I'll answer it live here on the show. Thanks, everyone, and we'll talk to you soon.


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