Steve Larsen and I have hit the stage together many times to unpack the power of Dramatic Demonstrations. And as we gear up for our upcoming book, Steve is orchestrating an extraordinary event just for you! Hear how Dramatic Demonstrations may just be the answer to skyrocketing ad costs, helping you retake control of your lead generation and sales online. Get your ticket before they’re gone! 

Register For The Event At: https://dramaticdemonstrations.com


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That's the thing most people are so scared of...what if my thing's not good? But then, when I got that feedback like, this is good. It was so validating. Then I was like, I want to tell everybody in the world about it.

Russell Brunson:
What's up everybody? Welcome to the Marketing Secrets Podcast. So excited to have you guys here today. I got a really cool guest I brought into the studio, to the office here at ClickFunnels HQ, someone who's been with me for a long time, Steve Larsen. He used to be Stephen Larsen, went to Steve Larsen, but then he put a J in the middle. So Steve J. Larsen. But one of my favorite people in this world and I'm excited about is we're working on a really cool project about dramatic demonstrations, writing a book about dramatic demonstrations. So I thought for the podcast, let's have him here, and we're going to talk about dramatic demonstrations, what they are. But what's cool is during the interview we did some really cool things like we talked about some old dead people like P.T. Barnum, except he and I talked about Farmer Burns, some old things he was doing in the market back in the day, but then we were very specific on campaigns we've actually both run, both dramatic demonstrations to launch YouTube videos, dramatic demonstrations to launch books, dramatic demonstration to launch courses.

So if you have anything you're selling, there's going to be some really cool ideas for you. Here's how you can use these dramatic demonstrations to get more noise, more tension. I shared a strategy that I've never shared anywhere except for at my Inner Circle group. So people who pay 50 grand a year, they know about this, nobody else. I wasn't going to share it, but I think we're like 40 or 50 minutes in, I just dropped it. And then, yeah, so now you guys have that as long as you make it through the podcast interview, which would be really cool. So with that said, I hope you guys enjoy this episode of the Marketing Secrets Podcast. What's up everybody? This is Russell Brunson. Welcome back to the Marketing Secrets Podcast. Today I'm with a special guest, and this is probably also going to go on his podcast. So this is a dual podcast. His name is Steve J. Larsen. Steve, how are you doing today?

Steve Larsen:
Excited to be here.

Russell:
I'm excited to have you here, man.

Steve:
Yeah, yeah.

Russell:
This is like when we first moved into this building, you were part of it. You were helping me knock down walls and build the whole thing, and we sat in here for all day and all night for years.

Steve:
Years. A long time, many hours.

Russell:
So it is awesome having you back. And do you want to talk real quick, so people listening to mine, mines the Marketing Secrets Podcast. Come subscribe to my channel if you're right here. For your podcast, where do people subscribe to get onto yours?

Steve:
Yeah. SteveJLarsen.com and talk all things business in life.

Russell:
Cool. I'm excited for this one because we have an event coming up really soon called Dramatic Demonstrations, which is something me and you've been geeking out about for the last two or three years. And so I thought it'd be fun just to brainstorm, talk about dramatic demonstrations and get people excited about what they are and what they're not. Do we have a link right now where they could register? I know we're doing a pre-event for people who want to come watch it ahead of time. Do we have a link for that?

Steve:
Yeah, yeah. Dramaticdemonstrations.com.

Russell:
Oh, what a great domain. How did we know? And we're doing like a three-hour pre-event, right?

Steve:
Yeah, yeah. It's like a preview. Here's what it's about. Yeah.

Russell:
So you can go register that for free, which you should, and then come onto the live event if you guys want to come hang out with us. So that's the long-term. Anyway, in the short-term, over the next hour or so, we're going to talk about dramatic demonstrations. So I'm trying to think of the chicken egg… when did we first start talking about this? Do you remember?

Steve:
Yeah. I remember it was 2019, the world was about to shut down, and I was giving a nerd out sesh on the whiteboard, and I was like, "I wonder if there's any weird patterns on how P.T. Barnum did these launches, how he used marketing?" And as I started listing out all these big famous stories, I was like, "Oh my gosh, he has a launch model every time he launched anything." And whether or not it was a product that no one had ever heard of or there was a product that everyone knew of and he was trying to out position somebody else.

And I remember I was dropping something off at your house, I don't know if you remember this, but we were getting ready for FHL 2020, and I'm walking out, I was like, "Hey, man," you know you and I have that look.

Russell:
The crazy look?

Steve:
Yeah, it was a crazy marketing look. Like I got to brain dump this to somebody who understands it. And I remember just vomited on you for an hour and a half and FHL happened, and then it was like six months later you're like, "That is cool. We should do something." It's where it came from.

Russell:
So cool. I remember because me, I was reading a Dan Kennedy book and in one of the chapters he said the phrase about, he said that phrase, "Dramatic demonstrations." I was like, "Oh, that's what this is." People are like do a product demo, do it, whatever. It's like, no, no, no. It needed to be bigger. And I heard that phrase from Dan Kennedy I think is when I bought the domain name, I'm like, I need to buy this. And then we started talking. I was like, this is the thing we should talk about dramatic demonstrations. And by the way, those who are watching the video version in my hand, I've got a little mini P.T. Barnum, he's here with this today. This is actually, hallmark made these P.T. Barnum dolls back in 1979. So this doll is older than I am, so this P.T. So in memory of P.T. Barnum and all the greats we've been talking about, he's here with us today. So that's the weird little dude who's sitting here on stage if you're wondering who he is.

Steve:
I'm just going to start buying a bunch of those and stack them on your car, a little voodoo doll.

Russell:
BT Barnum everywhere. So I think this is fun because I think both you and I, maybe because we hung out for so long, for so many years, we both geek out on people and figures from the past and marketing from the past. For me, it really started because of Dan Kennedy. I got his world, I was doing it at marketing and he was talking about fax machines. And first I was like, "What does this have to do with me?" And then later I realized how I could apply it to my business. And so for me, I started geeking out looking at old people's stuff just like you did. And then you've gone the same route. So I don't know where that all came from, but was P.T. Barnum the first one you studied when you were looking deeper the other people as well?

Steve:
No, actually it was because of you. I was doing an event early 2019, and it's actually when you keynoted that.

Russell:
Okay.

Steve:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 600 people, right? And then I remember after the fact you said to me, you sent me a message and you go, "Have you ever studied Claude Hopkins?" I was like, "No, I don't know who that is." And you said-

Russell:
Claude.

Steve:
Yeah, you were like, Claude Hopkins is the original scheme man or offer guy they used to call him, you told me, right? They used to call him scheme men.

Russell:
So cool. Scheme's have got such a negative connotation about they used to call people scheme men, and that was the person who created the offer in a company was a scheme man.

Steve:
Such a cool name. And that's a weird thing, but back then a totally different meaning. And then that's when I started just peeling back the layers of Lenny and I was like, this is awesome. And then I got into Albert Lascar and just all these different people. And then that's when Barnum came up, I was like, "Who's this guy?" And then there was-

Russell:
Like, oh, he's the most prolific of them all.

Steve:
He was like at 10X the amount of volume and content compared to all the others. And so it was just fun to go deep.

Russell:
What's interesting is as you know the very first time we spoke at Final Hike live about dramatic demonstrations, we talked about P.T. Barnum, and then I think you had the idea, originally we should give P.T. Barnum a two comma club award. So during the event, the screen opens and they bring out a big old statue or a big cut out of P.T. Barnum, and we give an award. But what's interesting is he actually was the second... He's the second millionaire in US history, right?

Steve:
Yeah. Second millionaire in America, which great.

Russell:
Who was the first one?

Steve:
He was a drug dealer actually, which I think is funny.

Russell:
So see, you got some drugs,

Steve:
1800s.

Russell:
You sell drugs or entertainment. But for me, I think the first one, so when I got in this business, Matt Furey was the first people I studied. He's not doing a lot of stuff nowadays, so a lot of people know who he is. But he was an amazing marketer. He was in the wrestling space initially. So I started buying his wrestling courses while I was wrestling, not knowing anything about business or anything. And he had this course that came out. It was the Farmer Burns course. It was this old guy from 1919 who was this wrestling coach and stuff. I remember-

Steve:
He's the met guy, right?

Russell:
Yeah. Yeah. I spent, it was like $50 for this book, and I'm in high school kid, so I'm saving up money to buy this Farmer Burns wrestling course in the 1900s because he talked about the old guys, how they were way tough for this nowadays. And I remember on the sales letter we was selling the course, Matt Furey told this story, and you see it in my gym, I found an actual pitch on eBay. So what Farmer Burns was doing, this is a perfect example of a dramatic demonstration. So he was trying to sell his wrestling course. So he would go to city fairs all across the country, Nebraska, Iowa, whatever, and he'd go to city fairs and he would set up a hangman's noose and he'd wrap an entire thing around his neck. And then they would pull the floor and floor drop and they would do the six inch or however six foot drop, which normally break.

That's how people die. People think that you die from being strangled, usually just the drop and it breaks your neck and that's how you die and you're laying there hanging. So they would do that. He would drop, and his neck was so thick, he'd sit there and then he'd whistle Yankee Doodle Dandy while the crowd went crazy around him. And then he'd sell the wrestling course. And he went from city to city to city, and that's how he became Farmer Burns. It was this crazy dramatic demonstration. Because back then they didn't have TV or internet, anything. It's like we have to do something amazing to get attention. So that's what these guys were doing. And nowadays, people are so lazy that they just put up a Facebook ad and a funnel and hold for the best, right?

Steve:
Yeah.

Russell:
I think that's what we're trying to inspire people. It's like, no, they do amazing things to get people's attention. And I'd love for you to talk about some of, I know there's so many cool P.T. Barnum stories, but any of them that you can share that just gets people with wheels in their head spinning how people are doing then and then maybe we can dive into nowadays what we're doing.

Steve:
Yeah, totally. The one that immediately comes to mind is actually the Jenny Lind story. I love the story. This whole book's on this. Jenny Lind was basically America's first female rockstar, but she was really a nobody in America. And so the story goes that P.T. Barnum is a little bit later in his career, and he had this reputation with the public of being a hoax man. And so in efforts to be seen more professionally, he's like, "I'm going to go work with someone who's big and famous."

Russell:
More classy.

Steve:
"I'm going to be more classy." And that's like the whole motivation he had for it was just change how the public saw him. So he goes in, he's like, "Oh, I love Jenny Lind," this famous opera singer in America, and what if I started partnering with her and I'm going to have her come to America, I'll sell out her shows, she'll sing her opera, and she'll be a business partner of mine. And so he's psyched about it, goes into a little bit of debt to bring her to America across a ship. And as he's stoked about it, the story goes that he's walking down the street and he's like, "Woo-hoo bringing Jenny Lind to America, Jenny Lind's coming to America." And he's not really getting the reaction he wants and he's saying it to people as he walks down the street, a doorman goes to open the door and he's like, "Who's Jenny Lind?"

And is at that moment that he realizes, "Oh my gosh, I'm bringing in nobody." No one knows who this lady is. He's eccentric. He's obviously wealthy so he has the resources to learn outside of America at that point and no internet. And so he is, "Oh my gosh, I have to go figure out how to basically get a no one famous." And the reason I love this story is because entrepreneurs, as they go create a brand new offer for behind the scenes, it's kind of like Jenny Lind. No one knows who she is. No one knows that the entrepreneurs made this offer, and P.T. Barnum made her into a somebody as she's on the ship. And so he first gets all these reporters to just create story about her in the news. And the challenge was that no one had ever really seen her before because there's no internet.

And so these artists are practicing pictures of her and they're trying to guess what, no one had ever heard her sing either. And so they start like, "Hey, here's what she's like, her personality, her dislikes." And so he starts creating this character that no one's ever met, but just the idea of it in people's brains. But then he goes out and he's starting to have... He auctions tickets to the events. He has a poetic competition and all these poets do these... She's not even to America yet. And these poetic competitions and on the dock where the ship's going to arrive, he has genuine swag and bakery goods. They actually ended up coining it Lindomania because, and she didn't know anything was going to happen. So she arrives on the ship and there's such hysteria, like true legitimate first time in America, hysteria over a celebrity that P.T. Barnum created from someone no one had ever heard of before. 30,000 people show up at the docks, and there's these stories of all these men paying maids to steal hairs from her comb. Really weird stuff, people were weird back then too.

Russell:
It's not just nowadays.

Steve:
No, it's still around, it's just easier with tech. So it's funny because this is the first real story though, where some celebrity was created out of nothing out of thin air, and she didn't know this was going to happen. And so she broke up the band after a while, 90 shows in, just got tired of him and she couldn't sell any shows. And I think it's one of the biggest parts to it is that as soon as the noise machine ended and Barnum stopped putting stories in the press and he stopped doing competitions and JV's of that day with other opera singers, like the money dried up. What a powerful story. And so at the heart of it, the thing that I take from that is that at the heart marketers are event throwers, and we might do an event in so many different ways today, but that's really what we do.

Russell:
Yeah. Your dramatic demonstration is key. And one thing for those who have seen the Greatest Showman and know Jenny Lind through that, they did not ever have an affair was portrayed in the movie that was Hollywood trying to ruin his image. Little P.T. Barnum here in my hand, he never did that kind of thing. He was great. Yeah.

Steve:
In fact, funny enough Barnum's wife and Jenny Lind did not get along.

Russell:
Oh yeah.

Steve:
She called P.T. a cow several times. Anyway, they didn't get along.

Russell:
That's hilarious. Okay, so I want to talk about then for people listening to this, because obviously me and you geek out on the stories back then, but everyone's like, well, how does this work for me today? What does that even look like? And so I think it'd be fun just to go back and forth on just stuff we've done in the past. As you were talking I was trying think, funnel hacking live is a good example of an offer that we do every single year.

And it's, for us, the hardest thing. We sell events the hardest to sell because you got to get somebody convinced that they got to take time off work and get a ticket and hotels and flights and figure out what to do with the kids and the spouse. It's the hardest thing we sell. So for us it's always, people always ask, "How do you sell so many tickets to your event?" I'm like, well, it's because we're selling them all the time, doing all sorts of stuff throughout the entire year trying to get excitement and noise. I remember one of the dramatic demonstrations we decided to do was a telethon.

Steve:
I was just thinking that one. Do you remember the old PBS telethon?

Russell:
I remember back in the day watching telethons and like PBS was like, I remember one day, I can't remember who, I said to him, we should have telethon. And usually it's Dave would be like, I think it's Dave. "We should totally do a telethon." And so in this room we're in right now, they set up tables and people, we had phone calls, phones back there, and Dave had the whole money suit on and we just jumped on and for I don't know how many hours.

Steve:
It was like four hours.

Russell:
We just did Facebook Lives and on the Facebook Lives we're like, call right now. Call right now. We're doing crazy prizes, giving away stuff. And it was chaos. I think we sold, I don't know, a couple a hundred something tickets that day, where on a normal day myself, sold three or four tickets and it's just this huge thing. And then it was over. But then I still get people say, do you remember that telethon you guys did the one time and it was just a random dramatic  demonstration to try to recreate to get noise about an offer? You always talk about this. The goal is you're creating a hook and the hook is that's what the dramatic demonstration is, right? I explain to people what that is because I think a lot of times the telethon wasn't a funnel hacking live, it was a hook to get people interested so we could then sell them funnel hacking live. You know what I mean?

Steve:
Yeah. I think the dangers that some people look at a dramatic demonstration is the same thing as a launch and it's like they're not really the same thing. You're still launching... You're doing something to get attention. But the real key piece is this little offer hook part. My favorite way to explain it is back to when I was a door-to-door sales guy, and for two summers door to door sales, I sold pest control and I sold security and I was also a telemarketer and I did it because I heard Kiyosaki once say in college, he's like, "If you're going to be an entrepreneur and you learn how to sell, you're never going to be an entrepreneur." So I was like, "Make me hard coach, commit me to the toughest place." And door-to-door sales delivered. That sucked. But no, but I remember though that there was really, and anyone in sales knows, there's really two parts to the script and not talking marketing, literally just sales.

It's like when I'd go knock on the door and the opening was like, "What's up? Hey, I'm spraying the Jones's house down the street. The truck is here, that's half our cost, so we can do it for 50% off, is four or five o'clock okay for you today?" We just went straight there's something to close. Straight in, there's something to close, what time? But the whole point though, and I mean very rarely would someone go five o'clock, and instead what we would do is smoke out their issues and we'd address them and get around. But the whole point though is that's really part one of the script. And we were not allowed... In fact, my sales trainer would ask me, "Did you get to the question?" We were never allowed to go to part two of the script where we talk about the offer until we got them to ask one question, which is, how much is it?

Or tell me more. And that key question right there allowed us to then present the offer. And I think that's the danger a lot of marketers have today is they're assuming when they go put out their marketing copy, they're assuming that people are already saying, tell me more, when really you haven't done part one, which is all the stuff that you're doing, tell me more. How much is it? And marketers get in trouble, like "Raise your hand, come on, get it up there." Yeah, yeah. You want me to talk about my offer? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Raise that hand. Yeah. And then it's offensive, it's not a collaboration communication between the two.

Russell:
Yeah. Interesting. Should I pitch that for people to make sure they understand? So give me an example of something you've done specifically that breaking into magnetization from the offer and separating those two things.

Steve:
Yeah. One that was for you actually, remember the weight loss thing? So the scenario is this lady, you wanted to go put out products for and supplements for, I said, "Hey, who's the dream customer?" And she goes, I want to work with somebody who is trying to lose weights. They once felt like they were the pretty girl. They want to go and get more... They want to feel better about themselves, be more confident, and they just feel like life has gotten in the way. And so what we had to do is we had to identify a story that wasn't sales material. It was really getting someone to say, tell me more. And so this whole hook was like, hey, you just looked at the last picture of you at a party and asked yourself, "Is that what I look like?" And you've known what it's like to get a man's sneaking glance, how come you don't have that anymore and now you have this diagnosis you feel secret about and now maybe a relationship didn't turn out the way you want to.

And then we basically said, what could you do to get revenge on all these things that have happened in your life, only using your body, and we got getyourrevengebody.com, which is when the right person hears that, they go "Tell me more." And we're not walking around, it's not a sales script, it's getting someone to just go, "Wait, what?" Just hand raising is all you're really doing. So if you think about that for anyone watching or listening, it's like look at everything you're doing in marketing today and ask yourself, does this get someone to raise their or am I already asking them for money and we're not even in a relationship yet? That's really a good way to figure out what you're doing.

Russell:
Yeah. How do we get their attention? How do we get them to stop? How do we get them to want more?

Steve:
Yeah, tell me more.

Russell:
Create the desire. It's interesting because I'm thinking about, it's funny, I'm obviously planning a funnel hacking live. If you're taking, I go to funnelhackinglive.com.

Steve:
Yeah, you're crazy.

Russell:
But I'm also thinking what are campaigns we've in the past, and so I always think, what's something that's hot right now? So two years ago when NFTs were the thing, it was like, "Oh, NFTs are so cool." So I was like, okay, we know this is a thing that people are talking about, how do I use that as a hook to take something they're already interested in and throw my message out there to hook upon it and use the existing attention of what's happening? So we did that. So we did this whole, it was like nftfhl.com or something, and I remember we took everyone who'd ever been to funnel hacking live in the past and we had these bank bags and I put a sales letter, a big little NFT, I can't remember all this stuff on it, and we shipped it to everyone who ever bought it to.

So it's like 17,000 people have come funnel in the past. We send this thing in the mail, they got it, they were able to read through it and then it was like, there's a live event coming, this is just for you guys, nobody else. And so 17,000 people had a private invite to this NFT event and then we came on and we're talking about NFTs and why they're so cool. I'm like, this year's FHL. Tom Bill used come talk about NFTs, which is amazing to show you how you use NFTs inside your funnel. But on top of that, we actually created NFTs for all of you guys who've been to funnel like that. We made an NFT for each year and then it was cool as I used this whole NFT angle to be able to sit there and present to people. So it was crazy.

We had a couple of thousand people on this presentation and they sat there for hours. I went through it, I was like, okay, those are in 2015. How many guys are 2015? I'm like, this is the NFT you get if you're here for 2015. I showed them the thing, and let me show you guys a video. So I showed the sales video from 2015 FHL, so they saw that I came back and I was able to pitch go get tickets, and I showed the 2017 one and the same thing. For two hours they're watching these little video presentations about old events. They got an FT for being there. So it's like I remember being there. I remember I told the story about each event and by the time it was done, people sat there for 90 minutes of me doing story time with Russell and they're like, people were crying.
"I remember that event. I want to go back." And all these people re-bought tickets afterwards, but it was creating this desire and a hook and just something different to get out there to get their attention, right?

Steve:
Yeah.

Russell:
Because the hardest thing I think nowadays is there's so much, I don't know, everyone's so busy and attention is the key, right? And it's the hardest thing to get and we're competing not just against the people in their life, you're competing against some of the greatest people. We're competing against Joe Rogan, the UFC, NFL, NBA. Everyone's fighting for the same eyeballs every second on each other's phones. That's who we're competing against is everybody else. It's like how do you create something that's already got their interest and you're grabbing those people and then bringing them back in.

Steve:
I was thinking about this a while ago. I was like, if attention is the goal and there's all these ways to get attention, what really is the precursor, the leading indicator to attention? And it's really noise. We look at the origin of sound and that's true even on a phone or whatever and you can make noise. I think the problem is that when people hear marketing and they hear the word noise, they think annoying. But you can make positive noise. You can make things that people are excited about.

Russell:
Music as always.

Steve:
Yeah, music is right. And it reminds me of, do you remember when we did... This is a long time ago. You remember the 24-hour funnel build that we did?

Russell:
Yeah.

Steve:
You remember we built four different company's funnels in one day?

Russell:
Because I had just watched every 24 hour or it's the TV show and I was like we should do that. That was a fun night.

Steve:
Crazy.

Russell:
Do you remember? So Brad and you guys got to see me behind the camera. He was there filming at by 4:00 A.M. He was laughing uncontrollably because he was so tired and we couldn't stop. I forgot about that. Remember that?

Steve:
A 100%. We should do that again.

Russell:
We should relaunch that episode just to show everybody the chaos that came from that, it was actually really fun.

Steve:
Well, I think where people sometimes I hear dramatic demonstration they get a little bit hung up too is they hear the word dramatic and they're like, "I got to do the equivalent of bringing a celebrity from Europe." I got to go or whatever. But it can just be doing what you do in a really unique way, building for 24 hours.

Russell:
It's something interesting. It's like how do you do something? Yeah, we built funnels for 24 hours or-

Steve:
And then we went to the movie theater and launched the episode a few hours later. Remember that?

Russell:
Go take an Apple paper, then come back and watch it.

Steve:
Oh my gosh.

Russell:
That was so much fun. That's crazy. We did a lot of crazy stuff back in the day.

Steve:
Yeah, we did.

Russell:
We add some more chaos back into our lives, too civilized. Yeah. It's so interesting. I was thinking about another recent dramatic demonstration we did and about this one, but was it with Dan Kennedy, right? Because again, me and you've been talking about so much every time we were having a new offer trying to launch my next question, what's the dramatic demonstration? In my mind is thinking, so it's like what is something we create big to again get excitement and attention and what's interesting, those who actually thought I can live, Tim Shields spoke on a late night session about dramatic demonstrations that he does dramatically and he's interesting because in his past, he would do courses, he did courses about photography and things like that from his house.

And then he thought, "What if I made this more exciting for people?" And so what he would do is he would go find a spot. The very first one he did was he went to the Grand Canyon, it's the side of the Grand Canyon and he did his live webinar there. It's the same webinar, nothing different other than he's like, "I'm taking you guys to the side of the Grand Canyon, it's going to be amazing." And he brought Starlink out there and he did the whole thing and he actually recorded a course out in the Grand Canyon and then he did a webinar from there showing them with stuff and then sold them the course. Well, they got the course free when they signed for his continuity program. So he's totally doing my playing the playbook, but it was really, really cool. Had him show it with everybody.

But he said it but it didn't really click. I was like, that's cool. I wish I was a photographer because I could do that. And he showed how he did it and ban from Canada and he did this other place all over the world doing these cool things. But again, I don't know, I'm sure people at home are similar to me. That sounds really cool, I wish I could do that. And I kept saying that and then he joined the Atlas groups. Then three weeks later he's here on the stage in Boise and he's showing the whole thing again. I was like, "Oh, I wish I was a photographer. I could totally do something cool like that," and he said something that got me a little closer to realizing, but I still didn't pay attention. He was like, "The key is this..." So this is for anyone's taking notes.

He said, the key is this. He's like, "You have to take your customers to a place that they wish they could go, but they would never go on their own." I was like, "Ooh, that's so cool." I took a note, still didn't drop. They didn't sit in my head and they looked at me directly. I was sitting right there, he looked at me, he's like, "Russell, you know what I would do if I was you?" I'm like, "What?" He's like, "Your people would love to go to Dan Kennedy's basement. You always talk about it. They've always heard about it. They can't go there. There's no internet there." He's like, "You should bring Starlink to Dan Kennedy's basement and go live from there." I was like, oh, he handed me on a silver platter before I got it. But then I got it and hopefully from that process and he's like, "Well now get it."
But I'm like, now in my head I'm like, where else can I be doing these things at? Right? I was like, we're supposed to go out to Wise Virginia, which is Napoleon Hill's home, and we were just going to go do a mastermind there. I'm like, I'm so stupid. I should be doing it from there. Last month we were in Chicago Earl Nightingale's place and we were in the archives and all this stuff and I didn't even think about it. I should have brought it there. If you're doing something anyway, it's whatever you're doing as a business owner, bring them there. What are you doing anyway? And they let people experience that journey. That's part of the entry and that's part of it could be another way to look at a hook. It's just a little bit differently. So then we did that and we ended up by doing that Wonder Magazine demonstration, we signed up more people in the 15-minute window than we had in eight months with paid ads through our traditional funnels.

And she's like the power of it is insane. It wasn't that hard. It was just like we had to tell the story. The hook's got to be something interesting enough to, people are like, wow, I got to register for that. I got to show up for it. A typical webinar, you get whatever people register and 15% show up. For Dan Kennedy's basement, it was like, first off, we had way more registrants. It was over 10,000 registrants. People are curious and then we had 70% show up live. So it's just like it shifts the whole dynamic now you pitching to more people because you created something different than just like, "I'm doing a webinar from my office today," and now we can evergreen that webinar show up for the rest of our lives. So anyway, I really fun ideas.

Steve:
No, I think it's so cool because I really think it's the antidote to how the world has gotten. I mean it's more ads have just gotten crazy and you actually said something at Inner Circle last week that was like, I thought really cool. It was like the final speech you gave the final day and you go, you said, "Yeah, in the past 10 years ago, these masterminds were all about ways we could do unique JVs together, but now we're all talking about ads 24/7. How interesting is it that almost feel like the scale is tilting the other way?" And to me the concepts of dramatic demonstration is the antidote to how much ads world has gone nuts and I think there's a skill increase here that's going to be necessary for companies because they're going to have to learn how to get attention without just rushing to pay ads. You know what I mean? Which now they get to go more creative and makes some more tension, but it's actually easier faster sales if you do it right than eight months worth of ads.

Russell:
Yeah. I think it's easier too because I used to think creativity came in making better ads. That's why we hired the Harmer Brothers four times and they're amazing, insane, but each time it was like half a million dollars and they make an ad campaign. Most people can't do that. Instead, it's like, I'm going to go... Insert whatever you do. I'm going to go take these guys to my high school gym where I grew up and I'm going to show them be shooting baskets at my high school gym or so just something new or it's unique. We can tell a story behind it that becomes interesting in dramatic. Now I also talk about the very first one I can, when we talked, in fact you requested this to me, I want you to show the campaign you did to actually sell the Expert Secrets books. Most people saw the funnel, here's the funnel of how we launch Expert Secrets and they thought that's what it was.

And it was fun preparing for that because I started going back in time and I was like, I can't believe how many little many things we were doing all the way up leading to the big thing. I don't have a list of them all right now. But it was like we had dramatic demonstrations to our affiliates specifically and to our audience, the people who were following us. There were multiple things all coming together. The ads were dramatic demonstrations, there were so many fun things we did, and I don't know you, I'm trying to remember the top of my head. A couple of the things we were doing.

Steve:
Totally, it was 13 things that you did.

Russell:
All unique different things.

Steve:
Yeah, they were crazy.

Russell:
I think we're going to show at the event too, so those if you have registered at dramaticdemonstrations.com, we're going to show that presentation so you actually see the screenshots and the videos of all the different things as they're happening, which would be fun.

Steve:
Anyway, and I don't think people realize that launching a book or launching a Harmon brother video or whatever, it's the same thing as launching a product and really a lot of times the precursor to it. But I remember it was like two days before that book came out, you sent me a message and you go, "Dude, we should probably figure out how to put the funnel together," because all the marketing energy was in promoting it, there was no funnel yet.

Russell:
Yeah. That was a little stressful last two days.

Steve:
I had so much caffeine more than that.

Russell:
We should have thought about that ahead of time. But we focused more on dramatic demonstrations we were missing and so many... Even after the launch happened because I remember we launched the book and then it was like, how do we keep momentum going? I remember Howard Berg, the world's fastest reader. He had messaged me something. I was like, I have an idea. I'm like, "Hey, can I fly you to Boise and I want you to read my entire book and we'll time how fast you can read it and then I'm going to drill you on questions?" And that became just a dramatic demonstration. "The world's fastest readers here in Boise," and I gave him the books where he read it. I think he read the whole book in four minutes.

Steve:
I was blown away.

Russell:
Something crazy. And I was drilling them on questions and he knew all the answers and it was like, what's the point of that? Nothing except to get people excited and intriguing and interesting. You know what I mean?

Steve:
Or when you sent the book to everybody and they thought they got the real book, but there was nothing in it. There was thousands of people.

Russell:
Yeah. The book wasn't finished yet. So I was like, how do I get affiliates to be interested about this book? So we printed out blank copies. I had people text me like, "Bro, this book is so good." I was like-

Steve:
Literally, there's nothing in it.

Russell:
It's all blank pages. I'm just sending you something to let you know a book is coming. Get them excited about the whole campaign. Yeah. But it's thinking through all these different things. What are the things we can be doing? I forgot you mentioned the Harmon Brothers video. We launched the video and it wasn't just like, okay, the video's going live on YouTube. It's like what could we do to make this special and how can we get people talking about it? How can get the right people talking about it? Well, if we want to get influencers to share and promote it, how do we get those people there? We're going to throw a party.

And so it went from throwing a party to throwing a party at Boise State Football Stadium. It's like, what if we did a bubble soccer game? That's be fun. What if we try to set a gist book of world records? It got chaotic. So sometimes, this is not a good example of how to do small ones, but it's a good example of big ones, but how do you make it more fun and more exciting? And to launch a YouTube video, we had, I can't remember, three or 400 people in the event, Gary V. Came in, all these influencers and everyone together talked about and pushed and promote this video and that helped it to go viral.

Steve:
I think it's such a key thing to understand too. I think that's actually one of the biggest things' people struggle with when they think dramatic demonstrations. They don't realize when you're an entrepreneur, that mentality affords to think minimum viable product. What's the fastest thing I can do to get it out the door as quick as possible. But marketers have a totally different mentality where it's like, "What's the loudest thing I can do?" How can I make the most, there's no such thing as minimum viable really with marketers it's like I'm going to go big, I'm going to throttle hard. And that doesn't mean complicated or chaotic but loud.

And getting that attention. My favorite part of that bubble soccer thing was when you made the list of Dream 400 YouTubers and the script was that you had to act like you were getting out of the car for each one. And I remember looking at you out the window and you got out the "What's up, this is Russell Brunson, I'm just got this cool thing coming up I want to invite you to," and you're like getting out of the car. You got four out of the car faked 400 times and I'm building 400 pages of the guy.

Russell:
It was like every influencer was like, Hey, what's going on dude? Perfect. So excited to see you. Yeah, I think the reason why I've been successful a lot of times is I'm willing to do what most people are not willing to do. 100%. It was hours and hours of me doing that. In fact, it's funny, because I think back about, man, this is pre-clickfunnels, pre anything anyone would even remember, but my brother just started with me with my video guy. We didn't have a video. We had just a camcorder that you could film video clips or no camera, a photo camera where you could take videos on as well. And so same thing, I was doing a joint venture or trying to do a launch with JV Partners.

And so I had my brother stand there and film me do 300 videos talking to each person. But what's funny about it is, again, it's a little handheld camera, but we didn't have a tripod or anything. And so this is his first day working for me. So he's standing there holding this camera, stop, start, stop, start, stop. And I remember after 30 minutes, he's like, "My back's hurting, my shoulders." I was like, sorry man, we can't stop. We have to keep going. And so for hours he's filming these things-

Steve:
Keeping his arms up.

Russell:
So looking back, Scott, if you're watching this, thank you again for sacrificing your body for this thing. But it was like four hours of that. After a while we're setting up books to put his hands on the books to hold it steady. But it was like, I need to make enough noise. People aren't going to listen to a mass email to 400 people. Send me a specific video for every single person. Same thing. Watch ClickFunnels, the exact same thing. We made those video cards and I made a video for every single joint venture partner. That's right. Specifically for every single one of those things.

Steve:
I forgot about that. Yeah, it's just a mentality. I think that's the piece people just struggle with is they don't realize it's a different mentality than entrepreneur and they work together, but one's the builder, one's the noise creator and they're just so unique. One's like, I can just go do this in a cave. I'm going to build my offer and I'm going to sit in a cave. And I don't think you should do that, but you can build a whole product in isolation, but you really can't do it as a marketer. And I'm not stupid, but sometimes I'll take a hat off and put another hat on. I'm like, okay, I got to change mentality, otherwise I let the entrepreneur mentality start to drive the marketing seat. Interesting. And that's when it gets dangerous because I'm doing minimum viable copy, minimum viable noise, and it just doesn't work that way.

Russell:
That reminds me as you said that, so this is a good example. So, my book, I'm writing a book, I'm going to write it for five years. So who knows if it'll come out, but check this out. So let me pull it up here on Instagram. So I realized, I was like, if I'm going to do this book, I need to make more noise and talk about it more often. But also it's like if I can take my audience on the journey with me, they'll be more likely when the book is done, don't want to buy it. Instead of me being like, I wrote a book, here it is. They know nothing about the backstory, the pain, the anger, the anxiety, the stress, the fact I'm bleeding from my fingers to type this book.

So I decided I was going to start documenting this journey and started filming it. And so I shared this Inner Circle. So you've seen it, but this is fascinating. So I started this series on Instagram. So follow me on Instagram so you can go see it. And so I started it in the very first one. So video one says day number one, writing a new book and hopefully selling a million copies. The very first one I posted, it got 43,000 views, which is not bad for a real... Not great, but for me is like this is good.

Steve:
It's great.

Russell:
And then episode number two, I posted, so day two on writing a new book, selling million copies of 42,000 views. So about the same, a little less, it starts getting momentum. Then day number three, writing a best-selling copies, 30,000 views is still not quite there, but then it starts getting a little more traction. Day four 25,000 views. And then day five, 49,000 starts growing. Then day number six, 192,000, day number seven, 594,000.

Steve:
Oh my gosh.

Russell:
I'm seven days into this. This is me sharing this thing in a direct demonstration. Slowly, slowly, slowly starts picking up speed. So day seven, 594,000 people. Watch this video. Day number eight, we'll launch I think on Monday. So once week we're launching this little series. I think about this now it's going to take me a year to write this book. So in a year from now I'm going to have maybe a hundred of these little episodes. I don't know if this trajectory will continue to go, but imagine I'm doing this little mini, it's a 60-second dramatic demonstration, just this is writing the book, here's the chaos, here's the stress, here's the thing I'm learning, here's whatever.

A year from now, imagine if these videos are getting, I don't know, 3 million, 5 million, 10 million views, and then my book comes out, there's 10 million people who every single day for a year have been anxiously anticipating the launch of this book that's eventually going to come. And then it's like, "Hey, my book's ready," boom, New York Times bestseller in five seconds because I've been doing this journey all along. I think that for anybody, instead of building your offers or your funnel or your course or your coaching for anything in isolation, start sharing the journey. This is what I'm doing, this is why I'm doing this. And just start taking people on that journey. And then when you get to the finish line, now you have the noise in the audience and all that stuff versus like, okay, the book's done. How should I sell this? I get people to come to me, "Hey, I just created my course, I killed myself. It's done. What should I do?" And I was like-

Steve:
You've missed it.

Russell:
You should have started.

Steve:
Yeah, you missed it.

Russell:
Build the audience first. That's the key. It's been actually interesting because as you know, my obsession now is like, how do I get traffic that's non-Zuckerberg traffic, non-Zuckerberg, not why I have to pay him. And so I've been doing lot interviews on the podcast talking specifically to people about that. And we had someone talked about Facebook groups and their whole key was how simple it was, how cheap it was to grow Facebook groups. I was like, think about this. If you're going to start a new offer, create a Facebook group and just start organically growing and dropping and same day dropping. Here's what I'm doing, here's what I'm doing, doing. And all of a sudden in a month now, nine days from now, you have an audience now 500,000, 2000 people for almost no cost in this group now who are part of this process, audience to sell it to you, right? Or whatever the thing might be. It's just like start the noise, the creation of noise early so that when you're ready to make a lot of noise, the level of, I don't know how to explain this...

Steve:
It's waiting for you instead of you... Dude, Barnum did the same. That's one of the biggest lessons I learned going through all these campaigns was he's like, a lot of what internet business owners will do is they'll be like, "I finished my product yesterday, therefore today I'm going to launch it." And it's like, ah, darn it. And they start emailing their list or they start posting, they start immediately approaching the traffic that they can control. But what Barnum did is he never talked to traffic. He can reach until step four.

The first thing he always did was he'd always get credibility for the offer and involve another influencer. Always. And I think that's a big key piece to it, is every single time he would go involve another influencer and then always involve the audience in the launch. You know what I mean? He would never ever launched in isolation. He launched with the audience, but always it's like a little carrot thing. Can't have it yet. Can't have it yet, can't have it yet. It reminds me of something interesting. Dude, you remember it was like eight years ago, I was about to leave working for you. I was sad.

Russell:
Is that eight years ago? Isn't that crazy? That's insane.

Steve:
Almost eight years ago.

Russell:
In my head I was like is that 18 months ago?

Steve:
I know. It feels like it was last week, right?

Russell:
That's crazy.

Steve:
Nuts, right? A lot of times go by. But the last project we ever did together was for Software Secrets. Do you remember that? I didn't know we were doing anything for them. And so three months before that I was looking at different podcasts on software and I started listening to this podcast called Software Secrets. It was like, oh sweet. And for three months, I mean, every time I'd mow the lawn or fold clothes or whatever, lift anything, I would be listening to this podcast and they're like, "All right, we got a crazy thing for you today. We're building our software and we're just documenting what's happening to us. We had a coder hold this hostage," and they're telling this backstory and then the next episode they're like, and I'm binging it.

Because I feel like I have to catch up now. And they're documenting them building the software, and there's this little feature I remember in the top left, this one little feature was right there in the corner and there was three or four episodes about how hard it was to get that little feature. And I remember I got to the very end of that show mad that it wasn't live yet because I was totally sold and ready to go buy. And then I remember I walked in and looked at your board and we were building, I was like, "This is them. Are you kidding me?" And I was like the first guy to buy.

Russell:
They were building all the anticipation before which is key.

Steve:
Yeah, you include the audience in the launch. Yeah. Yeah. Just like Hollywood.

Russell:
It's so interesting, I feel like the market got lazy.

Steve:
Yeah. A little bit.

Russell:
Literally because of Facebook ads.

Steve:
Yeah.

Russell:
It's like, oh, I can just flip a switch and people will show up and it's like that's getting harder and harder and more and more expensive. And again, more and more noise. It's like, man, the people who can engineer this stuff correctly ahead of time. It's the key it. I started thinking about this. I was out visiting Andy, Ellie yesterday, I think I told you, and I look at what their company's doing and it's like they're posting two YouTube videos a day, five reels a day, all this stuff. But they're not just like them sitting behind a desk like, let me tell you three tips or whatever. It's very, these little things they're doing to get attention, to get you engaged, get you whatever that feeling I'm seeing, I want that. I need to feel that. I want to feel that. You know what I mean?

That's what they're just driving with over and over and over again. It's like if we start looking at everything we're doing as producers, as content developers, whatever you want to call yourself a creator, it's just looking at how do we change this from scripted things to experiences we're giving people. You know what I mean?

Steve:
Yeah.

Russell:
We're in an experience age. Someone asked me the other day, they're like, information used to be the thing. In fact, when we bought Dan Kennedy's company, it was fascinating. They gave me the newsletter they read every month, like 20 years. They also had a CD, the Month Club. And people pay an additional $97 to get a CD each month with an interview on it. And that was worth $97 a month back in the day, which that's a podcast interview now. There's no value in that anymore. And courses used to be better. And they asked me, "What's the difference if information's now free, what's the next thing?" And I thought about it, I think that there's two things. One is I think implementations where money's at help implement the ideas. But number two is education and entertainment and getting people involved. So it's like if you stop looking at what you're doing as anything else, I am trying to educate my audience.

No, no, no, no. You're trying to entertain your audience. That's why they stick. That's why they pay attention. That's why they get on board. That's how they fall in love with you. That's when they show up, that's when they buy your stuff. And the people that are winning today at the highest level in our markets that I studied, I geek out on, it's those who are using this entertainment engaged in the audience. And that's the audience are sucked into it. So it's like thinking about it through that lens. And that's why P.T. Barnum, little P.T. here, by the way. They call him the Gray Showman. That's the thought.

How do you go in the Greatest Showman in your market where it's not just running ads. You just put a billboard telling people that the circus is in town, it would not have happened, right? It's him creating these things that make it bigger. I think that if we can all just look it through that lens a little differently, we're doing the same work. It's just how you are, the frame your mind's going to as you're doing those things. That's what makes a dramatic demonstration powerful. You know what I mean?

Steve:
Did you ever read a book By Daniel Pink called, I think it's Whole New Mind or something like that? One of my design classes in college, they had us read it, and I've never forgotten his claim. His claim was that in the near future, because of tech and all this automation, so much of the left brain activities of our life will be automated. Therefore, the future belongs solely to the right brain thinkers. Isn't that interesting?

Russell:
Wow.

Steve:
The more creative people are really the ones who own the future because all of the rest of it is going to be analog, automated.

Russell:
At least AI now, it's not creative, right?

Steve:
Yeah. You still have to be the input. You know what I mean?

Russell:
Interesting.

Steve:
And so I think that's what's powerful about, it's like AI and all this stuff is so powerful, but I was trying to explain to someone, actually my own podcast was like, hey, I love AI. It's really powerful. It's a step in the creative process, but never has the final say in it. However, if I go ask ChatGPT, what are the 10 steps to start a business? It'll load 10 steps out, but what it can't do is give me personal experience. By the way, watch out for step three, that one's a beast. When I did execute it. So I think that's where it sits in, and I think it's where it overlaps with dramatic demonstrations is like, come with me while I show you my creative process, because the rest of the stuff is the value of it's dropped.

Russell:
Yeah. So fascinating. All right, I want to talk about what we're doing. We have some cool stuff coming up. The long-term goal, it's not here yet. We're making a book about dramatic demonstrations, which is going to be amazing. And you've seen the cover design, it looks so cool.

Steve:
It's so good.

Russell:
Yeah, I'm excited for that book and everything about it. But to do a book, those who may not know this, I've written three books working on book number four right now, book number one. I wrote the book, hated it, deleted it through a three-day event, taught the book, people went crazy. From that make some shifts. And then I wrote the book and then it became DotCom Secrets. Expert Secrets wrote the book, hated it, deleted it, through a three-day event, did the whole thing, and then came back, and then that became the book, Traffic Secrets. I Learned this time, I threw the event and then I wrote the book. Much simpler process. I probably needed my Secrets to Success event. Maybe that's what I-

Steve:
It might be.

Russell:
Maybe that's another thing I'm missing. For us, we're like, that's the plan. We're writing this book, we're going to do a three-day event, but before the three-day event, and obviously it's going to be fun. It's going to be in your office. I'm excited to do a full event there, which would be cool and everyone should come to that. But prior to that, obviously we want to provide value first. So we're doing, I don't even know a mini... We're doing our own dramatic demonstration to talk about dramatic demonstrations, getting them to come dramatic demonstration events. You'll buy a dramatic demonstration book eventually, but the first one's coming up and I don't even know by the time this podcast drops, it's probably in a week or two, probably upcoming really soon. It may already happen and hopefully the replays are there, but there's a free event coming up. Do you want to talk about what is going to be happening on that event and why they should go register for free at dramaticdemonstrations.com?

Steve:
Yeah, yeah. Honestly, I think this is a cool thing too that you've really been teaching everybody about also is you can go use things of the past to go be dramatic about it. So yeah, we're doing a three-day event. It's all about... Well, actually first is the three hour I'm getting mixed up.

Russell:
Three hours free.

Steve:
Three hours, it's a free one. Yeah. And we're going to go through and teach at a high level really all the dramatic demonstration what it is. And then the next part is really the copy. That's really where I think people get it messed up is again, they're acting like a salesperson when they should be marketer or they're acting like an entrepreneur when they should be acting like a marketer. And so it teaches those. And just like we teach though, it's the ramp up process to the next thing and then the next thing and then the next thing.

Russell:
Yeah. It's going to be cool. And I think for those who were at Funnel Hacking Live, we saw our presentations. We're actually going to be showing those again for free, which is cool. So that'll give you guys the context. The very first year we talked about it, we went deep into launch Extra Secrets book and showing all that stuff. We talked about those things and a bunch of other things, which was really cool. And for me, that was probably my favorite presentation I've given on stage fun. I came offstage, I was like, "That was so much fun."

Steve:
It was amazing.

Russell:
That was number one. And year number two, we switched more into the copy side of things and so don't have a chance to watch both those presentations for free during this live event, which would be cool. The second one, like you say, we go more to copy and there's a phrase that you use, which I think you nailed it with the phrase, what's it called?

Steve:
Called the offer hook.

Russell:
The offer hook. You're going to learn about the offer hook, which is cool, which is, this is something you knew you brought to my thought and for a couple of my businesses now, we were talking about potentially even doing it today, we don't have time, but doing it today for one of my projects I'm working on. But it's a really cool process. Those who are coming to live event, you're actually going to be doing it for them as-

Steve:
One-on one-

Russell:
Part of the offer.

Steve:
Yeah, one-on-one.

Russell:
Build out your offer hook for you, which that's worth 20 grand just by itself, but you learn about that during the free event as well. So both things happen. The free event's going to amazing, just go watch it. And then here's the behind the scenes. We're going to pitch you to come to the three-day event at the end of it. That's it. So either way, they get value and you should come to the three-day event because the event will be amazing. It's going to be a really small group. It's not going to be a ton of people there. It's going to be you with the really small group people going through it. And then the fact that you're building people's offer hooks is worth buying a ticket just for that.

Steve:
It's a lot of work, but I love doing it. It feels like a jigsaw puzzle and ah, this is why you don't have leads anymore.

Russell:
Yeah. It's really fascinating watching you do the process too. You've done it for me twice and watching the way your brain goes. For me, it's like, first I'm like, "Why is he asking these questions?" This is so weird. And all of a sudden you pop like blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, what the... Where did you pull that from? That is amazing. And I know you're going to be teaching how you do that in framework, but I'm sure it's a hard thing to teach. So the fact that they're have a chance to three day to learn it, but then have you just do it for them is like, is going to be special. So I'm excited for that. So, man, I'm trying what else we need to cover. Dramatic demonstrations are fun though. It's like the thing that's number one on my mind right now is every campaign, every offer, every everything.

I'm just like, what are all the big... For me, it's like a webinar could be a dramatic demonstration, a challenge could be a dramatic demonstration, but videos are, ads are. So for me it's like what are all the different things we're doing out there to really create the noise to get people to buy the offer we actually want them to do? And so I am glad that we coined this phrase because at least for me personally, now it's like our whole team's like, what are the dramatic demonstrations around this? Yes, we got tons. Let's start throwing out the ideas. And then that's when... That's all the fun. We channel our inner mini P.T. Barnum to be able to do that.

Steve:
Yeah. I remember it's a while ago you talked about the who, not the how kind of a thing. I think we're about to go through that as a market because the more I've talked about dramatic demonstrations, it's been interesting to see who is drawn to it versus who's like, ah. And I think if people they watch or listen, they're like, I don't know that I'm really the person to go do that. That's okay. You don't find the who that is that's psyched about that. And I think there's going to be more of the true marketers to raise their hands coming up and they're like, ah, I love that stuff now. That'd be fun.

Russell:
For sure. You got to become a student of this game to be... The biggest thing I've learned the last 20 years is those who become obsessed with the marketing of their thing do way better than those who are obsessed with the thing. So be obsessed with both. Be obsessed with your product, the thing, but it'd be more obsessed about the marketing. If you really love the thing you're trying to sell, you should be obsessed with the marketing of it because that's the fulfillment of the thing you created, right? Without that, there's no point in it. You mean you create something, no one knows about it. Then what's the point of you even creating it? Why did you do it? And if you really love the thing you created, you got to become obsessed with the marketing of it because that's when you get a share of the gift, and that's when all the benefits of creation come, you see it working on the people.

You see it change their lives. You see them have the ah-ah's. I remember listening to Ryan Holiday and he talked about how writing a book, it's such a private thing. Same with creating an offer. Whenever it's private, it's in your head, but then just sharing it was very public, which a lot of people get scared. For me, I remember writing the DotCom Secrets book. I killed myself. That was my first, in my mind, the first real art I had created. I'd done other stuff, courses, and stuff. It was like this was art for me. And it was so personal. I was so scared to share it with people. In fact, I remember I sent copies of a bunch of my friends. There's one friend who I, it is Rich Shepherd. He's one of the most voracious readers I've ever met. And I was so scared for him to get it. So I'm like, this is my art. I don't want to share it. And then we were at TNC and he came to me, he's like, dude, all these people said, they got your book. Can you send them to me? I'm like, "Oh."

Steve:
What are you going to say about it?

Russell:
I'm scared of you. You're the one who could destroy my soul in one negative review. And I had one there and he's like, can I take it on the flight with me home? I was like, ah, yeah, man. So he took it and I was just like, oh, what if he hates it? And it was crazy. He read the whole flight home and he finished it on the flight and he texted me, he's like, "Bro, this is good. This is really good." I was like, "Oh." I think that's the thing is most people are so scared of what if my thing's not good? But it's like, man. But then when I got that feedback like, this is good. It was so validating. Then I was like, I want to tell everybody in the world about it. You know what I mean?

Steve:
That's how I feel about this book.

Russell:
You're the rich chef right now.

Steve:
And I'm like, oh my gosh,

Russell:
This better be good.

Steve:
I know it's going to be a good book. But I'm like, man, what if it sucks?

Russell:
Oh for sure.

Steve:
Yeah. Oh, man. I definitely feel that pressure with it.

Russell:
It's going to be so fun though. I'm excited, man. It'll be great. I mean, I know just watching you iterate on these frameworks and stuff, the last two years or so has been really cool to see. And I think-

Steve:
Labor love.

Russell:
It's a spot now where it's simple and replicatable where people can actually use it. And I think that's the exciting thing. Yeah, and I think it'll be fun because we can share a bunch of stories from old dead people. I'm going to bring some of my favorite scenes as well. Some of my favorite marketers are just watching what they've done or reading what they did in the past is really, really cool. And then I'm going to bring a lot of case studies to the event of just what people are doing right now. I've been watching... The last two years, my eyes wide open watching everybody.

So it's like I'll bring my swipe file of cool things people can look at and you can model into your business as well. So it's going to be awesome. I'm pumped for the event. So those, again, who are watching this or listening to this, wherever you are, go to dramaticdemonstrations. Plural. No?

Steve:
Plural.

Russell:
Plural. Dramaticdemonstrations.com. Go register for the free event, three hour event. You'll be able to watch the two presentations from funnel hacking live, plus a bunch of other cool stuff. And at the end of that, we'll invite you to come to the live event, the workshop. If you're interested in, come hang out with me and Steve in a really small room with a dozen or so people. It'll be intimate. It'll be fun.

Steve:
It'll be intimate. Yeah.

Russell:
You can't get that anywhere else. I don't do events like that anywhere else.

Steve:
I'm only going to do it one time too. It'll be fun. Yeah, it's going to be fun.

Russell:
Yeah, it's going to be amazing.

Steve:
It'll be great.

Russell:
I appreciate you, man. I'm excited to do this with you. It's going to be awesome and dramatic demonstrations, everyone, that's the key. That's the next step in your business, your journey. Make some dramatic demonstrations, come learn how to do it. Live with us. And if you enjoyed this podcast episode, if you're listening on my podcast, please rate and review. Let me know how if you liked it. If you listen on Steve, same thing. They should probably tell you how cool you are and then go subscribe to his podcast if you're listening on mine and vice versa. And I appreciate you guys listening. Any final words before we bounce?

Steve:
Just excited to have you guys. It's going to be awesome. I really think this is going to be the final thing that helps people get their lead flow back up where it should be.

Russell:
Yeah. It's awesome, man. Anyway, appreciate you. Thanks so much, and we'll see you guys all at the live event. Dramaticdemonstrations.com, let's go.

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